AP vs Dual Enrollment Please help

Applying to College
1

<p>I am new to the board although a long time lurker. Please don't flame as I realize I am very early in the process.</p>

<p>Background: DD is currently in 7th grade in the Talented and Gifted program (small town). She has a 4.0. She recently took the Duke TIP and scored a 1960 on the SAT. This qualifies for the Grand Ceremony at Duke, only 2085 out of 71,009 who took the test ( the 71,009 is the top 5% of 7th graders in the district). Quite a wakeup call for us. She is an avid reader, top AR points and reads at least 5 books a week. Her teachers tell us that she is the most gifted student they have ever taught. I think that covers it.</p>

<p>The school is starting to talk about AP and Dual enrollment. There will be approx. 10 AP classes available through High School, or she can attend the local college (Edison State
College in FL.) for 4 years and graduate with an associates degree.</p>

<p>She will likely attend UF or FSU for her bachelors as in ISS as $$ is an issue ( we have pre-paid college for in-state). She will hopefully then go on to grad school, currently wants to be a VET. O.K. So if she does Dual Enrollment will she be looked at as a transfer student? Is this bad? Will Grad school look at the Dual Enrollment as less challenging? We are leaning towards AP. What would you do?</p>

<p>I find the conversations on here so interesting that I lurk just for fun!! Thanks so much.</p>

2

<p>I AM GOING TO FLAME YOU!!!.. Just kidding.</p>

<p>I was going to say that it depends on how hard the AP courses are…but since your daughter is not applying to other universities, I guess GPA is not that much of a concern.</p>

<p>Then the question come to what courses do they offer.
For example, if the 10 courses that the high school offer is like AP Art History, AP Music Theory, AP Studio Art, AP Latin, AP French, etc… and you daughter is not a Art person or interested in Latin or French, then too bad.
College courses offer a greater variety of courses that can suit your daughter in almost anyways! However, as you know, transportation is a big problem. Also, college courses are harder than AP courses (in general), so the workload is much heavier on your daughter.</p>

<p>So here are my suggestions:

  1. Get a course catalog from that HS, and check what courses are they offering exactly. (AP Calculus is almost a must, usually with AP bio, AP chem, and AP English,too.)
    And see how your daughter likes these subject areas.
    2.Make sure that either you or your wife can transport her (this means you must get to her high school at around 12:00 or 1:00, drive her to that college, and pick her up again like 3:00…)</p>

<p>Lastly, why not both? If she’s very academically active (I didn’t read your entire description, but I guess she is.), you can also take a lot of AP courses and dual enroll in a college.</p>

<p>I can use myself as an example, I took 10 AP courses, and dual enroll in a community college for Organic Chemistry (after AP Chem), multivariable Calculus, and Linear Algebra (After taking AP Calc AB and BC, and unwilling to take IB Math HL).</p>

3

<p>How dual enrollment credits depends on the place she would apply to. Some institutions would consider her a transfer (particularly if she has her AA), but others would consider her a regular applicant. And of course the policy now might not be the policy by the time she is applying to college! Since you have money tied up in the pre-paid program, find out what the rules are. She may be able to use the money outside the Florida public system.</p>

<p>Among the options she might want to consider is early enrollment in college. I can’t find the exact page with all of the links right now, but at [Hoagies</a>’ Gifted Education Page](<a href=“http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/]Hoagies”>http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/) you can find a reasonably up-to-date list of colleges and universities that offer this. I do know that [Program</a> for the Exceptionally Gifted — College Programs for High School Students Graduating Early](<a href=“http://www.mbc.edu/early_college/peg/]Program”>http://www.mbc.edu/early_college/peg/) has been around long enough to have a decent track record.</p>

<p>Dual Enrollment coursework is real college coursework. AP courses are classes designed to prepare students to take an exam in which the exam scores are interpreted by some colleges and universities to indicate that the student has achieved a level of competence in the subject equivalent to that of an introductory level college course. </p>

<p>Have you asked your daughter what she’d like to do? Some kids really want the whole high school experience. Some just want to get on with the real business of their lives. Either one is OK.</p>

4

<p>Hi! I live in Florida as well.</p>

<p>I will be graduating this year from a Public HS and a local CC.</p>

<p>If she wishes to attend UF and FSU, she will be FRESHMAN applicant even with the AA.
Don’t worry.
There is an option on the UF/FSU application that asks if you have an college credit.
I was accepted to UF as a HS/AA graduate and have received a scholarship.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.</p>

<p>The process is the same as if she was just a regular applicant. Transfers are for students who graduated from High School then attended a college/university.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the replies!! DD is leaning on us at this point and doesn’t seem to have an opinion ( she is only 13 after all). To clarify the Dual Enrollment. She would be attending High School at the College and would graduate simultaniously with an associate degree. It is a program that the HS and College worked out. It is likely that she would attend a Florida State School and the CC college credits would transfer. Hope that helps. Keep them coming!! Thanks everyone</p>

6

<p>They credits will transfer as long as she stays in state. I earned 77 hours and every single one of them were accepted. Dual Enrollment is the best way to go in terms of preparation for “real college”.</p>

7

<p>I suggest that you run the financial aid estimator on CollegeBoard. You might find that financial aid could make a top private school affordable for your family; some provide excellent need-based aid, while others such as Emory have great merit aid. If that might be an option five years hence, I submit that AP might be a better way to go. Your D could experience college for four years and still go to Vet school.</p>

8

<p>I’m also a dual enrolled student in fl. Are there any other options you’re daughter could consider. At my school we take AP courses for high school and then supplement it with college classes. I’m graduating with 74 credits and was considered a freshmen by all of the instate schools that I applied to.</p>

9

<p>Thanks again everyone! So if DD stays in state it seems as Dual Enrollment is the way to go. If DD stays in state and uses the credits from Dual Enrollment to get her bachelors will this be frowned upon by grad schools?</p>

10

<p>I have been dual enrolled since the beginning of my junior year. When I graduate high school in May I will receive my AA and transfer 61.5 credits to a private college in the fall where I have received a great FA package. It really is a benefit to be considered a freshman applicant because it gives you an edge in the applicant pool. A lot of students take AP courses but not many transfer freshman year with an AA degree. </p>

<p>She might be able to do both. You could wait and have her start college courses her junior year like I did, I’m homeschooled, so I’m not sure if it works the same way but if she is able to go full-time her junior year she should be able to recieve her AA in her last two years of high school. Her first two years of HS she could take AP courses, that way she gets the best of both options (AP courses + an AA degree) in her four years of HS. That might also help with the transportation issue (by then she would be able to drive herself).</p>

<p>I also plan on going to grad school and I can’t see why that would be frowned upon by grad schools since she is still earning her bachelors degree, just in a smarter/more affordable way.</p>

11

<p>Like several other posters here, I am a dual enrolled student. I will be graduating with an AA from a Florida state college (different one from yours) with 79 credits in May. </p>

<p>Graduate schools tend to focus on the last two years of college, as those are the years where your real work in your major takes place. That said, they will require transcripts from all colleges attended. I would think that great grades in dual enrollment would be better for grad school than AP, as the former entails another positive college transcript to send, while the latter entails having fewer college grades to submit.</p>

<p>As for college admissions, I think you should look into financial aid. Also, based on her 7th grade SAT, it stands to reason that she will receive National Merit from her 11th grade PSAT (Florida’s cut-off was 210 this year, with equates to a 2100… She’ll surely improve more than that by 11th grade). With National Merit, many schools will offer full-tuition or even full rides. One of my main choices is an out of state private university in Manhattan that gave me full tuition for National Merit. Also, Dual Enrollment seems just as good for college admissions; this year, I got into Notre Dame as a dual enrollment student. My girlfriend is also a dual enrollment student, and a past valedictorian from her school got into Duke as a full time dual enrollment student.</p>

<p>Of course, UF and FSU are great options. Even if your daughter decides not to be limited just to them, she should definitely still apply. I applied to UF and this is how the process went: Filled out the freshman app form, checked the box that said I was graduating with an AA, provided college information, sent transcripts, was admitted as a freshman (with honors and national merit scholarship), told that upon my second semester, all my credits would transfer and I would have junior standing.</p>

<p>I have taken both AP and DE courses; I would say that, in general, DE is more challenging. Rather than a high school class that simply teaches to an exam (think intensifying FCAT prep and making it the entire point of the class, that’s what it’s usually like with AP) that might give college credit, she’d actually be taking college courses, taught by PhDs (or people with Master’s degrees, at the very least) in the field, with a huge course selection. I was taught Psychology by a PhD who taught at the Air Force Academy, history by a professor from Georgetown and UPenn, who served in the Peace Corps around the world, Astronomy by a professor who worked in the greatest planetarium in the country, Philosophy by a PhD hired to make ethics reports for the US government on nuclear power, statistics by a PhD who does work with UF professors for the government and big name companies. The quality of instructors is simply outstanding, and far above what you’ll find at a high school. Indeed, arguably the best high school teacher I had later went on to be a professor there, too.</p>

<p>I would certainly recommend dual enrollment. College courses are just taught so much differently; they’re more on-topic, interesting, efficient, and taught with a style that gets rid of homework in favor of engaging discussion, self-reliance, and a level of learning above the high school counterparts of these classes. I found the courses more challenging, but I also found myself doing better in them; I rose to the challenge, and the courses were stimulating, interesting, and really brought out my desire to learn. If your daughter does end up choosing dual enrollment, I would suggest that she choose her courses, in part, by the instructor evaluations at [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.ratemyprofessors.com%5DRateMyProfessors.com%5B/url”&gt;www.ratemyprofessors.com]RateMyProfessors.com[/url</a>]. Some negative comments are obviously by students with a grudge; however, by reading multiple comments and following the more articulate or genuine ones, you will dodge bullets and find great professors. I haven’t had a bad one yet, after 24 courses.</p>

<p>Please feel free to send me a private message with any more questions or concerns, or simply post them here; I’ll try to follow the thread.</p>

12

<p>Billymc- What a great response, you sound like a great kid. I think you answered my questions quite well. Thanks again everyone!</p>

13

<p>I am not sure about the requirements for vet school but I suspect that they are similar to medical school. Anyway, most medical schools want all science classes to be at the university level, not community college.</p>

14

<p>Grad schools and professional schools are different. Professional schools generally do not prefer early college grads. While I dunno about vet, med schools look askance at young 'ens and at community college courses.</p>

15

<p>

Actually, in Florida, general education requirements are standardized. Same course codes, level of education, and guaranteed transfer. Indeed, one might learn more in a class of 20 than a class of 200.</p>

<p>Of course, higher level science would be taken at the university level, but if you’re deciding between AP credit or real college credit for the general ed science, real college classes are of course more desirable.</p>

16

<p>It all depends, Billy. If one is aspiring to a top med school, community college courses won’t cut it, without a hook. They will be devalued big time. Better to take AP credits at a four year Uni and take other courses while there.</p>

<p>It has nothing to do with standardization of curriculum. It has everything to do with the competition (curve). </p>

<p>Like I said, I know nothing about vet schools except that they are a harder admit than med schools. Given the competition for vet acceptance, presenting a less rigorous set of transcripts is something seriously worth considering. (Hopefully, those dual enrollment courses will be all A’s).</p>

17

<p>So, given the option of AP credit or DE credit, you think med/vet schools would rather see “AP credit” on a transcript, rather than a real college class with an actual grade taught by a college professor with a graduate degree at a college campus?</p>

<p>I don’t know anything about med/vet school admissions, but that seems fairly ridiculous.</p>

18

<p>Lots of valid points. Any idea how to confirm either way? With the AP courses in HS you may get some college credit but no AA. With Dual enrollment you will end up with the AA but it really is from a CC even though transferable to any state school. Not sure what Grad schools would prefer.</p>

19

<p>If you wanted to email some admissions officers for Vet Grad Schools, that might be helpful.</p>

<p>However, I wouldn’t mention that your daughter is in 7th grade. Just say she’s deciding between AP and DE and wants to know how the latter is judged by their grad school.</p>

<p>Also: Be prepared for your daughter to change her mind about her future. A lot. It happens to most kids, and she may well still want to be a Vet, after considering other options. I know my idea for my future was way different when I was in 7th grade than even when I was in 9th grade, let alone today.</p>

20

<p>Billy I know that you are right about her changing her mind but I do think Grad school of some sort is in her future.</p>