<p>love the computer
our impression- colleges are being truthful when they say they prefer common app.
You can always print your essay- make corrections to hard copy then reformat to send.
I have had to read many resumes/applications and handwriting is much more work to read. If filling out a basic form I wouldn't bother getting a typewriter but for anything else- type.
My daughter did her original applications on the computer then printed it out and school mailed it in- but then she took a year off, and as the schools were emphasizing to use common app we took them at their word.
She was accepted to all her schools- so I would advise do whatever you feel comfortable with, but if they want a one page essay- make it large enough to be readable- which usually means keyboarding.</p>
<p>Isn't College Confidential the greatest? I mean, where else can you wonder about something in the middle of the night, send it out into the cosmos hoping for wisdom from the collected masses, and a scant 9 hours later return to find all sorts of interesting opinions and valuable advice? Thanks to all for their opinions and advice. And while I'm at it, just a general thanks to the site owners and moderators for providing this forum. It was a great help in my S's college application process a few years ago and it's been a great help this time around too.</p>
<p>Predictably, opinions are quite varied on this topic. It doesn't suprise me. As a writer myself, I think "ownership" of your finished product is just such a personal issue. Whenever my D agonizes about the process too much, my not so sage counsel is to remind her that she'll have to live with her personal comfort level about the process forever ... do whatever works for her ... and invariably a college is going to be much more concerned about the substance than the process (unless the process is too weird! ... sorry momrath ... couldn't resist ... and p.s. ... as a fellow creature of an age long past, i know exactly what you meant).</p>
<p>C'mudge captured my D's feelings well ... it's that sense of fear that something you've worked hard to perfect (whatever perfect means to you) might through no fault of your own get totally destroyed through internet transmission. It's loss of control, uncertainty, fear of the unknown all rolled up into one bundle of angst.</p>
<p>What I wasn't aware of, is the ability to use these online forms as sort of a virtual typewriter and then print the thing and mail it off. I think this sort of approach might very well be a healthy middleground for my D. Thank you. Of course, there is then the issue about whether a school somehow prefers, even at the most infinitesimal level, their own application over the common application. My personal take is that an applicant needs to be comfortable with his or her approach. If an applicant can sleep better at night knowing that they have used the vehicle -- common app or the school's own app (understanding that many schools only use the common app and a school supplement) -- that best connotes and represents their interest and mindset, then that's the application vehicle the applicant should use. Do what makes you feel comfortable; no regrets. By agreement schools consistently say that there is absolutely no prejudicial effect in using the common app. That being the case, then there is likely no prejudice attached in using a school's own form. As for whether there is something to be gained by using the school's own form? How will we ever truly know? To me, it's the same as considering what you get if you breed an elephant with a rhinoceros ... "elephino."</p>
<p>Finally, while I'm not losing any sleep over it, I do take slight offense with CalMom's post -- not the substance, she's entitled to her opinions, but the tone. I've got close to 200 posts on this board. Everybody handles message boards differently, but I've taken great pains to be considered and exact in my language and opinions. If CalMom had taken any time whatsoever to research rather than to quickly and summarily judge, she might have noticed that I'm personally anything other than a "too involved" or hovering parent. Moreover, I was very careful to say "physically" typing (to remove any possible inference about involvement in composition) and it really couldn't be much more clear that the gist of the issue was the use of the venerable old fashioned typewriter -- an ancient machine where kids are NOT particularly adept (it's one of those rare low-tech areas where old-timers still rule the roost). Thanks to jmmom who responded much more succinctly than I'm capable of. She called this function a strictly "clerical job" and was delighted to help out a little bit with some administrative functions in what is already a far too stressful and time consuming undertaking. Personally, if by doing some pure PHYSICAL task I can help out a bit, and hopefully allow my daughter to have a bit more time to stress about where to apply, what to say, and how to choose from among the acceptances, then I feel that I've done her a service by allowing her more room to consider the big picture without being totally consumed by the details. We had a blizzard the day she took her SAT. Should I have let her do all the shoveling herself because she should live and die with each and every aspect of this whole college experience completely on her own? I think this is a closer comparison than your implication of ghost writing. Personally, I think appropriate collaboration and teamwork is a life lesson and skill. Sure there are lines, but I have zero doubt that I've crossed that line. Zero. You think this is far too involved? Then ... guilty ... and proud of it.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all.</p>
<p>I'm with you, Dude. </p>
<p>I did every bit of the clerical work involved with older D's 15 applications - basically copying info from her resume. She was in charge of the essays and prioritizing ECs and nothing was posted without her approval and say-so. I am doing the same with D#2. </p>
<p>Same goes for scholarship forms. Nothing creative, I'm just typing. </p>
<p>Thanks to everyone on this thread, I'm going out to look at Adobe Acrobat Professional! (Now I'm a little nervous about applying online!)</p>
<p>D used the common app everywhere it was accepted. Most schools are doing away with there own apps if they take the common app.</p>
<p>After my daughter's printed application for a summer program was hopelessly lost in the mail this past spring, I have a different take on submitting things onlline. I think it is a good idea. You can still print out a copy "just in case" and to proof before you send, but with online your application doesn't have the danger of getting directed to the wrong place and, in most cases, you get a confirmation back saying that it has been received. Yes, you can get the post office or UPS to say they have delivered a package, but that only confirms it has been delivered to the CAMPUS, not the specific person it should go to. (In my daughter's case, the post office said the package with her application package, which included her transcript and recommendations had been delivered - it had, but not to admissions. It was TWO weeks past the deadline before admissions tracked the package down --- it had been delivered, and had sat, in a classroom building totally unrelated to admissions. No one had thought to bring it over to admissions during the three weeks since its delivery. An online application would have gone DIRECTLY to admissions with no middle point.)</p>
<p>My daughter's guidance counselor has advised us to submit whatever can be submitted online.</p>
<p>S went with online all the way. He was able to print and preview all apps and make any necessary format changes. No applicaton was submitted until we were 100% sure of the finished product. As was stated earlier, many of the schools indicated a preference for online apps and stated that any apps submitted via snail mail were scanned into their system, so make sure there is no faint or light colored ink used. I also don't have problem with a parent helping with clerical work and have lended this helping hand to my kids.</p>
<p>Common app vs school app is pet peeve of mine. I think you can get much more in tune with what a particular school is looking for by using their own app. I also think it lets you focus on just that school and give that app your undivided attention. Whichever app kids use, I think they should always read over the school's own app to see what that school values and then use the one that can best showcase your qualities. If using the common app, make each submission separate, don't just check all the schools' boxes and hit send. Applications should be individual and tailored to each school. Sometimes just a short paragraph in the add'l info section about why you want to attend XXX can give a little boost. For online submissions always try to submit a few days early. This year with so many kids submitting online, many of the college's websites experienced very heavy traffic and were very slow or unable to be accessed on the last days before the deadlines.</p>
<p>I think a reluctance to submit online is something many of these kids are going to have to overcome in the future. My older S, who just finished his college sophomore year, has indicated that most of his professors will only accept online homework and term paper submissions. Hard copies are becoming a thing of the past.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Personally, I think appropriate collaboration and teamwork is a life lesson and skill. Sure there are lines,
[/quote]
Well, dudediligence, this time you get the prize for succinct and well-stated. I'm highlighting this issue because I think it goes well beyond the immediate "why types?" question. </p>
<p>All of our kids have had the group-project scenario in high school. Here they begin to learn sometimes tough lessons about how to handle the one who doesn't carry his/her weight. Do they just do that kid's work for him, for the greater good of the project's, and their own, success? Usually. How do they respond to the question which is always asked in our hs (in writing) as to how each person contributed. (They gloss over the problem, in my experience. After all, it IS high school and rocking the boat is not rewarded).</p>
<p>Then we have the major project as homework assignment. We all chafe at the parents who basically DO the work. Definite crossing of the line. Yet, parental "involvement" can be just what dudedil says - life lesson in collaboration and teamwork. It was a joy to behold my S bouncing ideas off his dad for his Physics project this past spring. Brainstorming, listening, accepting some ideas, rejecting others, finetuning his own ideas based on suggestion. I'm sure some would say DH should have said nary a word. I think differently. In the vaunted "real world," collaboration and works-well-with-others can often trump IQ points in determining success and satisfaction.</p>
<p>Sorry for the off-topic post. Dudedil just awakened something in my thinking. And now, we return to our regularly scheduled wranglings over on-line vs. not.</p>
<p>
LOL. That is exactly what D is doing today. Setting up hard copy files to scribble on.That's too funny.</p>
<p>One advantage of the common app for the GCs and teachers--they just have to do one rec and can make copies to send to all common app schools. If your kid is sending out 10 apps and so is everyone else, this can multiply the work for teachers and GCs. Common app must seem like a God-send.</p>
<p>Dude - my daughter also refused online submission for the reasons you gave. Her high school packages applications to send, so this is what we did.</p>
<p>She filled out the Common App for everything except the long essay. We bought Adobe Professional through my husband's school (we got an educator's discount, then donated the program to the school, we paid about $100, wrote off some of it and he uses the program). She used Professional for the supplements. It was not hard to learn how to do the blank filling. I played with it for about 20 minutes, just asking questions in the Help (no useful documentation, of course), figured out how to do it, showed by daughter, and off she went. It took her less than 2 hours to do 8 app supplements - it would have gone faster but, she did them in 2 batches, and it took about 15 minutes the second time to remember - Oh yeah, this is how we did it. She also experimented with fonts until she found one that allowed the work to be neat, legible, and fit the spaces, and didn't use the same font every time because of the size of the spaces.
She typed her long essay on an entirely separate piece of paper, and just put "See attached" in the corresponding space on the Common App.
So she actually did all 3 things that have been recommended, and it worked very well, for her. Demographics look fine on the Common App, people run into trouble on the essays - she was ruthless in editing her short essay so it fit into the space. Pro works great on those fill in the blanks - I actually suggested she download the COmmon App into Pro, and type the long essay directly into the essay spot, but she preferred her way - different strokes.</p>
<p>I really don't think the adcoms care if an application is submitted online or through the mail, and the student should submit the application in the way they are most comfortable with. The online applications are probably printed out by the clerical staff for the student's file, so the adcoms will see the printed copy. For my daughter's ED school, the application fee was waived if ANY part of the application was submitted online. She submitted the Part 1 (Preliminary Application just giving very basic information) online, and then completed the Common Application and Supplement through the Common Application website, but then printed them out and mailed them along with her resume (the Common App says to attach an additional resume if desired). As others have said, the Common Application online allows for additional pages for continuation of responses which don't fit into the spaces allowed (not for the activity list, though) and has a preview function so you can see exactly how it will appear when printed. Even if you are submitting the applications as hard copies, you can save your applications on the Common App. website and reuse or modify as appropriate for other colleges. This method worked well for her.</p>
<p>I am sorry if I offended you DudeDiligence - I did not mean to. It was late at night and I composed a hasty response - and "tone" often is hard to convey - or misinterpreted. I wrote with a smile, but perhaps it didn't come across. What I thought was humorous, in response to your own use of the third-person to refer to yourself - obviously was perceived as hostile. And for that I am sorry. </p>
<p>But I do stand by my opinion -- I don't think with current technology that parents should be doing typing for 17 year olds. It's not as if the same paper has to be retyped again & again - if the student is using the identical essay, it can be photocopied. If the student wants to make minor changes, the essay should be word processed & reprinted. For those stuck with the idea of using hard copy, the essay can be an attachment, with the words "see attached" typed into the appropriate space on the form. </p>
<p>I applied to colleges in 1969. I was 15 years old. I typed my own essays, on a manual typewriter. Didn't kill me. So I don't think I'm out of line to expect my kids to do their own typing.</p>
<p>I also applied to colleges in 1969 without assistance. But I applied to only three schools, and the process was manifestly easier than it is now. So I'm with DD. I was happy to do much of the pure secretarial work for my daughter through two cycles of applications (she is transferring) and I will do the same for my younger one when it's his turn, if he wants me to. Although some kids seem to want to handle the whole process soup to nuts (and more power to 'em) mine was happy to cede the paper shuffling to me.</p>
<p>Calmom~
Apology not necessary, but accepted. On the internet, tone is indeed a difficult beast to tame. I didn't feel your "daddy" reference was hostile, rather unduly judgmental and belittling. No matter. I took only slight offense -- my skin is much thicker than that. And by all means stand by your opinion; I'll stand by mine too. As I thought was clear, I was specifically referring to lending a very particular and limited type of assistance -- as master of my trusty, but rickety old typewriter. It's mine ... we have a wonderful long history together ... and while my daugher puts my typing to shame, nobody lines up type on an old IBM Selectric better (or quicker) than I do. Whiteout? Editing tape? I don't need no stinkin' whiteout or editing tape. :) All composition is up to my daughter. All essays and attachments are word processed (by her). However, if I can pitch in and type a form or two -- using her handwritten draft as a template -- well I see no harm in it whatsoever and feel good to relieve some of the stress that these kids have in the application process which is generally far greater than the stress level we faced while applying to college (1975 for me). As others have alluded to on this thread, it can be very valuable for kids to receive a little help with the nuts and bolts from the people who care the most about them -- namely their parents. I can't help my daughter with her calculus homework anymore, but I sure can teach her a thing or two about setting up a checklist and a filing system, managing correspondence, and balancing her checkbook. Shouldn't parents be involved in their kids' education too? I think so. I'll have no involvement four years from now when she's applying to Grad school, but I think she'll have a framework to manage the process based on snippets of wisdom, here or there, imparted by the 'rents when she was applying as an undergraduate. Not to belabor the point, but we're talking line drawing here and I think most intelligent parents are very aware of the line and stay on the correct side of it. "Too involved" parents (whatever "too involved" really means) bug me too. Any slight offense I took was probably related to being wrongly (in my opinion) lumped with a stereotype I abhor. Where we differ factually is that I think my kind of assistance -- and the kind of assistance brought up by many others on this thread -- is the furthest thing possible from being "too involved." We all see things differently though, eh?</p>
<p>Well, I guess I don't really understand what you are getting at, because if your daughter can word process the essay, I don't know why a typewriter would be needed. I do recall my son doing some cut & paste jobs back when he applied - printing out his essay in right size to fit within the appropriate space on the form, then cutting it out, pasting to the form, then xeroxing for a clean copy. (I don't remember if it was a college app or something else - but the idea is the same). </p>
<p>When you say that you can teach your kid about balancing a checkbook, I hope you see that as a different thing than doing the checkbook balancing for her every month -- because if you go the latter result, the kid will never learn. </p>
<p>I do plenty as far as teamwork with my kids. I do web design, and my son recently asked for my help in setting up an online ad for his work, with nice graphics & colors to make it stand out. I enjoyed doing that and was delighted that he asked for my help. (He works for a nonprofit, so I didn't mind donating my "professional" time to their cause, either). But I'm not a typist or a file clerk. I really do see my own time as too valuable to be spent on mere clerical duties - or what is essentially busy work (typing an essay that doesn't need to be typed because it is already in the word processor and could be submitted online). I mean, when it comes down to it, I don't really see a difference between the unnecessary typing and the unnecessary application fee - if the kid wants to do the extra work because it is meaningful to her, then by all means, let her do it. But I guess I really don't see the difference between the kid who has the nice, individually typed applications that were done by a parent and the 5th grader whose science fair project looks so great because mommy did the lettering and daddy connected all the pieces. </p>
<p>I'm doing a lot to help with the college application process - lots of online research into colleges, for example. I've set up a great spreadsheet to track college apps, with direct links to the college web sites. I send her a lot of email with links to interesting information, and I've researched which colleges have strong programs in her areas of interest. But she needs to do the application part herself - what goes on to paper and is mailed to the colleges needs to be her own work. I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable if any part of the application was done by me - to me it would seem like cheating.</p>
<p>"It's not as if the same paper has to be retyped again & again - if the student is using the identical essay, it can be photocopied. If the student wants to make minor changes, the essay should be word processed & reprinted"
Calmom: essays, activitiy lists never have to be typed on a typewriter, as they can be wordprocessed and included on a separate sheet. I think what is being referred to are individual school data forms, or the common ap (minus the main essay).</p>
<p>I cannot tell a lie--I did the clerical stuff for my D's applications. Guilty as charged.</p>
<p>Calmom,</p>
<p>You're right, I guess you really don't understand what I'm getting at. But I've come to understand that you're being deliberately contentious and obtuse. So much for your apology. I started a thread seeking opinions about one of the nuts and bolts, mechanical parts of this process, but you keep turning this into a debate about parenting. Good debate material; wrong forum. After this post, please find another sparring partner. I'm not interested.</p>
<p>Since you've insisted on going beyond the pure logistics of my original request, I'll tell you what I'm getting at about parenting -- just this -- give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. I've worn many professional hats over the years -- attorney, college professor, writer, real estate professional -- my time is valuable too, but my time is never spent better than by getting into the mud and teaching things to my kids, whether learned and esoteric sophisticated skills, or the most mundane, ordinary, elemenatary life skills. Where should they learn the x's and o's other than from their parents? Getting back to specifics, if my daugher prefers to type a portion of the application (NOT an essay; not an extended attachment; simply filling in boxes), then I have no problem with either her decision (of preferring this method -- she has to live with it) or lending a little elbow grease, as appropriate. I taught her how to balance her checkbook and taught her how to call the bank when the card turned up "Bank Error in Your Favor -- Collect $15." I certainly don't balance her checkbook each month. You recite a litany of things you do to help your children. Bravo. Good for you and good for your children. I don't doubt you know the line that works for you and that you draw it accordingly. Please don't judge the lines which I draw for my family.</p>
<p>As for "cheating" -- do you honestly believe this? Cheating? For the kind of parental assistance that I and others have outlined? Please.</p>
<p>Dude: My D used the typewriter for both the Common App and school-specific apps (for schools that didn't use the Common App); however, she did complete most schools' Part 1 online both because Part 1 calls for basic information that even the most non-computer savvy student can complete and because, as MotherofTwo noted, a number of schools waive the application fee if Part 1 is completed online even if the rest of the application is sent by mail. Keep in mind that not only can you download and print hard copies of the common app and school-specific apps, but when visiting/interviewing at schools, you also can pick up extra copies of the schools' applications at the admissions office. I don't like to go into specifics about my D or her college application and selection process on CC; suffice it to say that I don't think the fact that her applications were typed had any negative impact. I also believe that when admissions officers say that the method of completing your application won't affect your chances for admission, they mean what they say. I recall attending an LAC information session at which a parent asked if the school really meant "X" (something in writing about the admissions process). The admissions officer "politely" responded something to the effect of: "We mean what we say. If we meant that you can't do X, trust me - we'd know how to say that." Bottom line: I don't think your D will go wrong using any of the methods discussed so far on this thread. I should add, though, that when all was said and done, my D remarked that if she had it to do all over again, she'd have completed all of her applications online. (If you apply to more than a handful of schools, typewriting definitely is not the easiest or most efficient way to go.)</p>
<p>Not a thread bump, but since this mundane topic might have been fully explored, I want to thank everyone who contributed their time, expertise, and tales from the front. I learned a lot, but perhaps not surprisingly, I learned that no two applicants approach this process in exactly the same way. Rather than being confused by finding no "one," "right," or even "majority" approach, I actually have a great deal more comfort about the process because it appears that this might indeed be a process (and appropriately too) where form is largely disregarded in favor of substance. If so, hurrah for admissions committees. It should be almost entirely about the kid, and minimally about the appearance and format of the app. Thanks everyone.</p>