Appealing FA packages.. how exactly?

Parents Forum
1

<p>With these FA packages right around the corner maybe some of you folks who have appealed these packages successfully can help out us novices. It seems in appealing you are looking the perverbial gift horse in the mouth. Some questions..</p>

<p>1) Don't some FA types resent the fact that you're not pleased with what thier institution has offered ... or have they come to expect it?
2) Is this like buying a car in that you go back and fourth ad nauseum and then meet somewhere in the middle.. or should you take the first response to your appeal, as it will more than likely be thier last?
3) Must you have leverage to do this, for instance, a better offer from a competing school.. or can you just make the case that you cannot afford the FA package as offered?
4) Is there any reason to be optimistic in competitive areas, (as in our case the northeast)..lots of applicants =seller's market?</p>

<p>Maybe you Vets out there can throw us a bone here....</p>

2

<p>I have heard of few who have ever appealed successfully.
I also wouldn't term it that- it is best put it in a way that either politely clarifies extra expenses like a kidney transplant for your toddler that they didn't take into account, or a one time bonus upon layoff which is needed to carry your family over until a new job is found.</p>

<p>If they already have all your correct info- yet you have an offer from a comparable school that is much more attractive financially, you might ask if there is anyway that they could help so that you could attend their school- but they aren't obligated to.
I also think that some schools ( my daughters for instance) dont decrease EFC- so if they are already meeting need- then there isn't a lot of options.</p>

<p>Id also point out that with schools that do offer merit- in particular to freshman- that may increase grants upon request- you may find that sophomore year those grants have disappeared and loans increased.
I don't think it helps to get a really attractive package freshman year, if that is the only year it is affordable.</p>

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<p>Emerald really said it all. Some schools will discuss their financial aid awards and some won't...not at all. I really think the student should do the talking. We also went in person to two schools (very very similar schools with very similar demographics, enrollment, competing students, etc). DD met with the finaid officers (I was there...but she did the talking). One school wouldn't even discuss their award...period. The second school added work-study, and a Perkins Loan to her package. And the finaid official also discussed with her different ways to view the bill and cut down on spending. He was terrific. We figured, nothing ventured, nothing gained...so she tried. But just be prepared for very different responses to your requests.</p>

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<p>A co-worker told me he always appealed the FA package. He would chronicle all his expenses, car insurance, dental bills, home repairs, and even his two younger son's hockey fees, then go visit the FA offices at the schools his two older daughter's were attending and plead for financial relief. He claims he had success.. especially once his two D's were in thier 2nd or 3rd year. Usually I hear the opposite, but he seems to think the colleges did not want to lose kids in good academic standing that were destined to graduate as it would hurt the college's stats. These were two non-Ivy, but uber elite schools with hefty endowments.</p>

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<p>The same co-worker mentioned in post #4 has encouraged me to actually take on debt BEFORE my kids enter college so I could leverage it against the amount I may have to pay. Seems looney...</p>

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<p>I don't see any logic or reason to take on debt before your kids starts college. </p>

<p>I've heard about buying a big ticket necessity item (new roof for the house) you think you are going to need in the next year anyway so you can spend down your $$. Of course if you spend down your assets to the point that you can't pay your EFC w/o taking a loan that is pretty stupid to.</p>

<p>The fafsa and CSS don't care about how much consumer debt you have</p>

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<p>Neither do most college financial aid offices.</p>

<p>Nightingale...I would view your co-workers "tale" with caution. There may be other circumstances that are not being shared with you. Everyone has dental bills, insurance bills, etc. And I can't believe the college would increase a finaid award because of hockey expenses which are surely discretionary.</p>

<p>Gee...maybe <em>I</em> should take all of my son's music related expenses (the ones that <em>I</em> pay out of pocket...summer programs, airfare to summer programs, music, music "stuff"....) which come to a hefty amount and take them to DD's finaid office and see if I can get them to award her more need based aid. NO...I wouldn't do that. The fact that I can afford to fund these things speaks to the fact that I do not need increased aid. I feel the same way about the hockey expenses you mentioned (yes...I know it's a very expensive sport...choices, choices, choices).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
A co-worker told me he always appealed the FA package. He would chronicle all his expenses, car insurance, dental bills, home repairs, and even his two younger son's hockey fees, then go visit the FA offices at the schools his two older daughter's were attending and plead for financial relief. He claims he had success.. especially once his two D's were in thier 2nd or 3rd year.

[/quote]
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<p>The only part of this posting I beleive is true and the basis for a financial review would be the parts about the dental bill (even then, they would have to be an exhorborant unreimburseable amount) and when this person had 2 students in college at the same time (which many schools will grant a review on this basis). </p>

<p>Most schools do not consider your life choices such as car insurance, home repairs, and even his two younger son's hockey fees. Think about it, if this were the case, everyone would be requesting reviews because there are too many families who also have these expenses .</p>

<p>As EK and others stated, most schools do not like to negotiate and even fewer will entertain the back and forth haggling like you are at a used car dealership. Some schools will straight up tell you becasuse they will not review packages and if money is an issue go with the college that you can afford. </p>

<p>Others will give a review based extenuating circumstances (loss of income, unreimbursed medical expenses, taking care of elderly parents) but will not look at bankruptcies, credit card debt, mortgage payments, car payments or other life choices.</p>

<p>Some schools are very amenable to a financial review if you present them with a package from who they consider a peer school. However, you will not get a financial review for presenting a merit aid package at a school that only gives need based FA (and vice versa).</p>

<p>Even amongst schools that give merit money, different schools have different criteria for getting and keeping merit aid. At many schools the larger amount of merit aid given the larger the gpa requirement could be to keep it. For some majors (ex. engineering) maintaining a 3.5/3.7 gpa could be very onerous. Also you need to find out if there is a phase in period for the gpa, what happens if a student does not meet the gpa (is there a grace period), if the student brings their grades back up is the merit money automatically reinstated, if you lose your merit money can/will any of it be replace with need based FA.</p>

<p>EK also brings up a good point aobut if you get a renewed package freshman year, barring any major changes in income, can you expect to receive a similar package in subsequent years?</p>

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<p>single anecdote:</p>

<p>S was accepted at 2 universities with very similar (high) price tags. Both quite selective. Both pledge to fully meet need. School A is somewhat more selective than school B.</p>

<p>The FA award from school A was considerably higher than that from school B. So, I called the FA dept. at school B, said that S was extremely pleased to be accepted, and explained that school A had received the same information that school B had received from us but had computed a lower EFC figure, and asked if school B might need further information from us. School B said it would review S's file. FA officer called and asked some questions, then came back with a higher award, but not one as high as school A's.</p>

<p>So, here is an isolated case of a polite call yielding a change in award.</p>

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<p>A friend with extreme circumstances (loss of a spouse several years earlier) was successful appealing to Dartmouth for better aid. Initially, Carleton offered a significantly more generous package (tens of thousands better) than kiddo's first choice, Dartmouth. She met with financial aid at Carleton and asked for explanation of how Carleton figured aid. Using this explanation, with a copy of the Carleton offer in hand, she met with Dartmouth financial aid. Dartmouth matched Carleton's offer.
Otherwise, I have only heard of improvement of 500 to 1000 dollars.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth is very upfront with the fact that they are amenable to giving a financial review (even if it means giving then the FA package from another school) They state this in their FA package and on their website.</p>

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[quote]
**What happens if the financial aid package doesn't seem as though it will work for my family? <a href="this%20is%20for%20ED%20applicants">/b</a></p>

<p>You should submit a Request for Financial Aid Review, (which will be included with the award letter), to the Financial Aid Office as soon as possible. No student admitted to Dartmouth through Early Decision is “locked in” and unable to receive the best financial aid package. If a student and family cannot manage the financial arrangements, we routinely release them from the early commitment so they can apply to other colleges in a timely fashion. In recent years only a tiny handful of Early Decision students have been unable to attend for financial reasons.</p>

<p>What can admitted students do if they're not happy with their financial aid award?</p>

<p>A student should first contact the Financial Aid Office. In many cases, more information from the student or from his/her family, including copies of better packages from other schools, will result in award adjustments consistent with a fair and equitable treatment of all applicants. The Financial Aid Office will talk with families about financing options such as parent loan plans and monthly payment plans.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/financialaid/fafaq.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/financialaid/fafaq.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>When my D was admitted to Dartmouth, Williams gave a better FA package (although not overall the best package but these 2 schools were her 1st and second choice and I already knew that there was a 50/50 split when it came to students who were accepted to both schools chosing one over the other). I called the school and thanked them for their generous offer, told them Dartmouth was my D's first choice but Williams was the more financially feasible option for our family. Dartmouth said fax the Williams FA award letter and in a couple of days they met the Williams package.</p>

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<p>In our case, we were able to succesfully appeal ous S's financial awards at all but 1 school. Our case may be different than most, because we are both self employed, own our own businesses, and thus have to fund own retirement accts, do have a large amount of equity in our home of 25 year, but could not afford to take out an equity loan [ couldn't pay for the increased payments] nor could we move to another area to pay for our S's education. Many financial aid officers are aware of the "squeeze" self employed parents are subjected to under FAFSA rules, and I think that, plus many of the colleges [ professors] really wanted my son because of his interest in a area that has few undergraduate majors.
What we did was submit an expense report to all college that had admitted him, with a cover letter explaining our appeal, that detailed all annual expenses we incur as self employed individuals- including health insurance, self employment tax, basic living expenses, cost of doing by business, everything valid to an appeal.
At 2 colleges that we know compete with one another- Dartmouth and Brown, I met with the financial aid officers when my son went to vist during accepted students days[ I had set up appts before, so they knew we were coming, and had received the appeal letter before we got there]- they both upped their awards, which did include loans as well as grants, to within a few $$ of each other. At all but 1 other college, which was know for it's stingy financial aid offers, our offers of financial aid were increased, in some cases doubled.
All the colleges knew what they were competing with, as he had already received a full tuition merit scholarship from the U the utimately choose to attend. So we had that as an additional bargining chip.
Our circumstances were probably different that most parents.</p>

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<p>I think you need to be careful when trying to negotiate. I know of two successful types of "reconsideration'-- 1- interpretation of facts, such as what menloparkmom refers to, i.e. two self employed parents will have far less disposable income than two parents at the same gross income level but with corporate type jobs with benefits; 2-- change in circumstances from the time that the paperwork was filed (job loss, death in the family, illness of a younger child, etc.)</p>

<p>In the successful cases that I know of, the families were careful to state up- front the reason for requesting a review (is it #1 or #2); were careful not to throw irrelevant information at the FA office (your kid wants to go to France with their choral group in May but if you spend the money on the trip it won't be available for your EFC); and were respectful that they were working with professionals and not bidding on a used cookie jar on Ebay.</p>

<p>The unsuccessful cases I know violated the above; trust me, even if you think you've got financial woes, the FA officers may have spent the last hour dealing with someone whose situation is tragic and not just tight. Breadwinners die; they die after long illnesses which wipe out a family or they drop dead on the way home from work. I'm all for respectfully asking a college to reconsider based on new information or a different interpretation of the information... but be sensitive. And by the way.... the officer you meet with may also have college aged children who will either attend the parent's institution if they get in, or local state U if they don't (due to financial constraints) so don't act like a jerk when talking about how 150K doesn't go very far these days.</p>

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<p>blossom, I believe your analysis is also correct w/regard to the instance I described, earlier. </p>

<p>Our situation is far from typical, involving self-employment among other things. I think that the first school just had a better understanding of those circumstances, and when the second school had a reason to re-examine our information, they chose to make an adjustment.</p>

<p>Most important, I agree that it is essential to behave respectfully and graciously throughout.</p>

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<p>I have a friend with a very large mortgage who couldn't afford EFC is huge loans. Colleges explained nicely that the mortgage size was a choice.</p>

<p>The better schoolsn will help you if you have genuine unusual expenses, but most won't.</p>

<p>I'm surprised Dartmouth and Brown would negotiate over a USC offer though.</p>

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<p>The FA director at a NYC college spoke at our hs and said you were more likely to get an adjustment from him if you come to the FA office in person and have specific reasons, not just general whining, about why it should be adjusted. And said to take off the diamonds.</p>

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<p>1) Don't some FA types resent the fact that you're not pleased with what their institution has offered ... or have they come to expect it?
It's their job to work with you on financial aid, and your right to discuss your concerns with them. Maybe its my legal background, but the idea that anyone would refrain from communicating dissatisfaction with an insufficient award simply for fear of offense seems rather silly. That being said, you should of course be polite and respectful in communications, bearing in mind the time constraints the staff is under -- I mean, appealing is one thing -- screaming, name-calling, or demanding instant results would be quite another. (I'm sure they very much resent callers who are angry or rude, and very much appreciate appealers who say "please" and "thank you") </p>

<p>2) Is this like buying a car in that you go back and fourth ad nauseum and then meet somewhere in the middle.. or should you take the first response to your appeal, as it will more than likely be their last? </p>

<p>No -- generally they have set rules and procedures and work within those. If, for example, they want you to document unusual medical expenses, then you will send the documentation (copies of medical bills, etc.) and they will review it once, and then let you know if they are increasing their award. </p>

<p>3) Must you have leverage to do this, for instance, a better offer from a competing school.. or can you just make the case that you cannot afford the FA package as offered? </p>

<p>Each college has its own policy; some will look at offers from competing schools, some won't. The best thing to do is to start by contacting the financial aid office to find out what they will consider.</p>

<p>Examples: (a) My d. appealed an award from NYU, in person. She had copies of awards from other colleges in a folder I had given her, but NYU explicitly says it is not interested in those. NYU isn't interested in hearing about personal expenses either -- they politely told her at the outset that she should simply "appeal" and that within 2 days they would get back to her, and she could expect an increase of about $1000 at most --which is exactly what she got.</p>

<p>This is pretty much how NYU works -- most people who start with a grant in the range of $8000-$10000 and who "appeal" (no reasons need be given) get an additional $1000, in some cases $2000 in grant money -- and that's it.</p>

<p>(b) My d. actually attends Barnard. Our financial situation is complicated, so each year I ask to discuss the award with a financial aid rep and go over all my questions and concerns. Barnard is a 100% need school that is very formulaic about their policies, but there are enough complications that open discussion can lead to areas where the grant may be improved. For example, this past year it turned out that Barnard had not considered the fact that I was making payments on a PLUS loan for my older son, who was no longer a dependent; they told me that if I could document my payments as part of a request for reconsideration, they would recalculate our EFC & increase the grant, and they did -- essentially by subtracting the amount of required payments from my income. </p>

<p>4) Is there any reason to be optimistic in competitive areas, (as in our case the northeast)..lots of applicants =seller's market? Colleges want students, and the job of everyone in the financial aid office is to give away money -- or , more appropriately, to support the admissions office by structuring awards that will mean that admissions decisions will be effectuated. In other words, the admissions office says who it wants -- the financial aid office makes that happen, in a budget-conscious way. At many colleges, the admissions office may also tell the financial aid office how much it wants particular students, resulting in aid awards structured in a way to favor the students who are in the "most-wanted" categories.</p>

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<p>"...so don't act like a jerk when talking about how 150K doesn't go very far these days."</p>

<p>Should be the mantra on the banner of every CC (and every other college-related) webpage, and maybe just in general, in life.</p>

<p>(Not directed at the OP, but just a general post-Christmas, New Year's Day, state of the world, toast to sanity.)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm surprised Dartmouth and Brown would negotiate over a USC offer though.

[/quote]
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<p>I don't think Menloparkmom said this ( I am quite sure she will come back and clarify her own statements).</p>

<p>She said</p>

<p>
[quote]
At 2 colleges that we know compete with one another- Dartmouth and Brown

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[quote]
All the colleges knew what they were competing with, as he had already received a full tuition merit scholarship from the U the utimately choose to attend. So we had that as an additional bargining chip.

[/quote]
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<p>I took this as if all else failed Menloparkmom knew her son could (and did) attend a school where his full tuition would be paid regardless of the amount of money their family made.</p>

<p>Schools that only give only need based aid will not "negotiate" a merit based package because they are 2 different methodologies. You do not have necessarily have a financial need in order to receive merit money, and if your child attends a school where theoretically every one has "merit" where do you draw the line as far as who should and should not receive merit?</p>

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<p>No, Brown and Dartmouth had no interest in what USC offered, They were only interested in what the other Ivy offered. And thay made that known right off the bat when we got there. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
And sybbie had it right, we had the fall back position of USC, but Pomona was one of the schools that came up a lot on the amount they offered, and they knew of the USC offer. The colleges we spoke to by phone in the beginning of April were told of the USC offer, but we quickly realized that carried no weight, and that was when we wrote the appeal letter. I should also clarify that we did not mention the USC scholarship in the appeal letter, as that was a merit scholarship and we knew ahead of time that the other colleges offered no merit aid. We were able to get additional aid strictly on the basis of need, after the colleges reviewed the material we sent them. But in the end, none could match USC's offer[ not surprising ]
'</p>