<p>Carleton is my top choice, but it is one of the only schools that has barely given me any financial aid. </p>
<p>I was wondering if anyone has been successful in negotiating with the Carleton financial aid office/getting them to re-evaluate their offer. I received 15k-20k merit scholarships at schools such as Macalester, Grinnell, and Kenyon, and this year my parents' income has been cut by around 15k. Does anyone know if Carleton has "matched" another school's offer in the past? How should I go about appealing? </p>
<p>Contact Student Financial Services, tell them about the reduction in your parents’ income (most important), mention your other offers (less important). It’s worth a try.</p>
<p>Carleton does not give “merit” financial aid, while I think that Grinnell and some other LACs do. Since Carleton’s financial aid is solely need based your best approach is to let them know about any change in your family’s financial circumstance. I don’t think Carleton will try to “match” financial aid offers from other schools which have awarded you “merit” financial aid.</p>
<p>Yeah. You’re confusing financial aid with merit aid. Carleton’s financial aid is historically about the best in the nation. It’s worth trying to appeal your offer if your family finances have changed. But Carleton does not, ever, offer merit aid to compete with schools trying to lure talent with non-need based $.</p>
<p>Thank you for your responses! I was under the impression that the scholarships offered by the other schools replaced any need-based aid they would have offered. As it is, Carleton expects us to pay almost double our EFC. </p>
<p>TS, no doubt this is frustrating for you. To echo what others have said, Carleton won’t match another schools offer with merit aid in any meaningful way. They run their financial aid differently than other schools. Whether good or bad this was very appealing to me when I choose to attend Carleton. There were no “special” students on merit scholarships like there might be at a major public or other private schools.</p>
<p>It seems that your major concern is your family’s finances changed between applying and getting an acceptance. Definitely bring this up with Carleton’s financial aid, yet you should tread lightly. Unfortunately, Carleton is not “need blind”. I’ve never heard of Carleton’s financial aid being unreasonable, but since they’ve stated that they are not “needs blind” they don’t necessarily have to meet your change in need if you applied with one stated need and immediately have more need when accepted. I’d emphasize that your family’s change in need was beyond your family’s control. Emphasize a job loss (layoff) rather than a parent voluntarily taking a lower paying job.</p>
<p>With all of this being said, I’ve never felt good about Carleton taking need into consideration when making admission decisions…even if it is for only a handful of the admitted decisions. Nor have I felt good about Carleton’s rising tuition even if it is accompanied by far more needs-based aid. This way of charging tuition can put a lot of stress on a family right on the edge of being middle class and upper middle class. </p>
<p>In Carleton’s defense, there is a a economic reality they need to take into consideration. Carleton doesn’t have the endowment that other similarly ranked schools have and every alumni, faculty and student wants Carleton to remain competitive. I once had a conversation with a faculty from Harvard. He was telling me that there was a serious conversation at Harvard about not charging tuition because their endowment was so huge. This is not Carleton’s reality.</p>
<p>Choosing Grinnell at half the price of Carleton is a very reasonable choice.</p>
<p>No doubt this is need blind thing is a difficult decision for a college. Grinnell can continue to be need bllind, but they have over twice the endowment of Carleton.</p>
<p>My son specifically did not apply to Carleton because of their no-merit aid policy. He did apply to Grinnell and received a large merit award- we did not qualify for need based aid at Grinnell, but applied because they do give merit aid.</p>
<p>Jack - your facts at a bit off. Carleton is one of the few schools that guarantees to meet demonstrated need and that includes guaranteeing to adjust need during one’s college years. Their financial aid has always been about as good as it gets. If family income drops during one’s 4 years at Carleton or a sibling heads off to college, Carleton will adjust up their aid package to meet that increased need.</p>
<p>Guaranteeing to meet financial need is a separate issue from being need blind. Carleton’s biggest problem is that even when need aware to 0-10% of applicants in any given admissions cycle, it STILL supports MORE students with financial aid than almost any other selective college including “need blind” LACs like Williams and Swarthmore and wealthy Midwestern uni neighbors like Northwestern, Chicago and Wash U. </p>
<p>Why? It probably says something about the students drawn to the school. Not a lot of east coast boarding school Trust fund offspring flood this campus. Without the ability to levy some need aware protection, there are few colleges that could handle this sort of unique challenge Carleton faces to its endowment. Grinnell, BTW, despite offering merit aid, last year only temporarily shelved a proposal to itself become need aware. It plans to re-address this question again next year. </p>
<p>A few years back I was laid off in April. I met with the Financial Aid office. My severance package was included as income for the first year and my D aid was slightly increased. Continue to the next year where I was still unemployed: the aid increased. I then became employed the following year and the aid was decreased. Carleton was extremely fair and kind as it was a stressful time. They met my D need each year and she left with only $20k subsidized loans. I will be forever grateful to Carleton for how we were treated.</p>
<p>I’m not standing corrected just yet…the OP had a change in family income within months of applying. To give some advice about being careful how you present this change to Carleton doesn’t seem like it needs a correction. It still makes sense to me that Carleton might not up needs based financial aid if there is problems with the reason the family income dropped.</p>
<p>Like I said a layoff is a good reason, similar to what Mom90 above described. I also said I expect Carleton’s financial aid to be reasonable.</p>
<p>Carleton has not been needs blind for 15 years or longer…I think. Grinnell still is. This is unfortunate. I agree that there is no easy solution for Carleton on this issue. Carleton’s endowment won’t change over night. All things considered, I even agree Carleton should have “need aware protection” (You couldn’t have made this phrase up Where did you get this? It comes across as an absurd euphemism.). I don’t have to feel good about it though. </p>
<p>These comments bother me quite a bit. Mainly because I don’t understand them and the data online does not verify them. They are unlikely to be verified by anybody with access to google and five minutes of spare time. 1190, I was honestly hoping you were right here by the way. From all that I can tell Carleton is in the middle of the pack in financial aid generosity. Carleton is nowhere near as good as Grinnell, not as good as Amherst, similar to Swarthmore, Northwestern, Chicago, and notably better than Middlebury, Pomona, Bowdoin.</p>
<p>So how are you looking a this?
-Are you looking at needs based grants alone without considering merit scholarships, work study, or loans? </p>
<p>Just because a school gives fewer needs based grants does not mean they are less generous. Schools charge tuition differently, and may make up for fewer needs based grants with more merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Also, work study and loans are a pretty small percentage of the financial aid any school gives. The percentage of students on aid could rise because schools let the rich kids have jobs so they don’t feel left out. As I remember Carleton did this. I remember talking to a friend of mind a Carleton with two MDs as parents. He was really happy one day because Carleton decided to give him a job trimming trees in the arb. He no longer felt “left out”. It is not really fair to count this as financial aid though. As for the OP’s question. In the past, most have been able to negotiate on work study. </p>
<p>Has Carleton’s financial aid numbers changed in the last few years significantly?</p>
<p>What am I missing? I’m not trying to overly combative, but as far as I can tell the main source grants/scholarships Carleton gives is near the middle for similarly ranked schools. Considering Carleton’s endowment, this is very good. The fact that Carleton has not been need blind for going on two decades is a sore point to alumni. It doesn’t help if Carleton financial aid policies are misrepresented.</p>
<p>I think it is better to look at the official data presented in the colleges’ common data sets. Based on the latest common data sets available for these LACs, it appears that Grinnell is a clear outlier, while Carelton is near the high end of the rest of the competition. The numbers in this table represent the percentage of full time students who have need fully met. (question H2 item h divided by H2 item a)</p>
<p>Thanks for the post ^^^^. This is a better way to represent the data. </p>
<p>Carleton is near the high end in percentage covered, but very close in terms of percentages compared to similarly ranked schools. I actually went through some of these common data sets, Carleton tends to offer a slightly less (~ $3000) average package compared to similarly ranked schools, and tuition is slightly higher. Calling Carleton’s Aid middle of the pack still seems fair to me.</p>
<p>Their numbers for % student body on financial aid (grant or scholarship) play out as follows in a sampling of similar academic tier players in the Midwest and bicoastally:</p>
<p>Grinnell 88% (need based + merit aid)
Amherst 66%</p>
<p>CARLETON 65%</p>
<p>University of Chicago 63% (need + merit)
Williams 61%
Pomona 60%
Swarthmore 57%
Northwestern 54%
Claremont McKenna 54% (need + merit)
Haverford 51%
Wash U 50% (need + merit)
Wesleyan 49%
Bowdoin 47%
Middlebury 39%</p>
<p>Again, Carleton’s numbers are impressive and I believe they do say much about the students drawn here. As far as individual fin aid decisions are concerned, I’ll let others speak to their own personal experiences. Carleton has traditionally, consistently, offered some of the most generous packages anywhere, measurably superior to rich regional brethren including NU, Chicago and Wash U. </p>
<p>And I too would love to see the day the school can return to 100% need blind status.
I wonder if Warren Buffet plays Ultimate?</p>
<p>I’m staying with Carleton’s aid being in the middle of the pack.</p>
<p>Amherst $38,839
Williams $37,008
Claremont McKenna $36,944
Wesleyan $35,087
Haverford $35,023
Swarthmore $34,255
Pomona $34,212
Bowdoin $33,341
Middlebury $33,307
University of Chicago $29,639
Grinnell $28,748
Northwestern $26,868
Carleton $26,270
Wash U $24,052 </p>
<p>By the way, I liked Dadx3 way of looking at this better. It was more realistic, and puts Carleton in the best possible light. The 65% number shouldn’t be mentioned without the average aid. The 65% number could include loans and work study, and I remember Carleton negotiating on work study for some students who received work study and nothing else.</p>
<p>jack
I’m afraid you misunderstand what all these numbers - mine and yours - signify.</p>
<p>Carleton, like every other college listed above (as it happens) is part of a small select group that guarantees to meet all financial need of accepted students. What my list (and dadx’s) tells us is that Carleton regularly attracts a larger percentile of kids who qualify for ANY financial need. The other colleges listed above (with the exception of Amherst and possibly Grinnell) will have larger percentiles wealthy enough to qualify for NO aid at all. BUT those students that do qualify tend as a group to be poorer, i.e. eligible for more aid. This is in no way a comment on how much aid any individual student would receive at one school or another. Again, historically, Carleton aid packages have been excellent, and rarely bested by others. And again, I’d invite you and others to review years of posts/threads on this board describing individual experiences with financial aid at Carleton. Those reviews (like Mom90’s here), with near unanimity, have been filled with superlatives.</p>
<p>1190 - I understand your points just fine. I just don’t agree with some of them.</p>
<p>The one on which I do agree: Yes, Carleton attracts a segment of upper mid-class mid-westerners that still need need aid, but not that much. This is not a segment you’d see at eastern schools. It pushes the percentage of students needing aid higher, while not really affecting the the total aid Carleton must provide per student.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with the fact that Carleton is meeting 65% of students aid as being Carleton’s biggest problem. It does not justify or explain Carleton’s need aware admissions policy…not when of those given aid, Carleton’s average aid is, on average, so much lower than the rest of the schools you mention.</p>
<p>This is what you said below. This is what bothered me so much.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Carleton’s biggest problem is its endowment. On this I am sympathetic for the most part. Carleton has been on a building spree for the past 15 years though, so there are always choices.</p>
<p>Article in the NY Times today offering some hope to the OP and support for idea of requesting a review of financial aid. They report up to ~ 50% chance of a successful appeal at schools as diverse as Cornell as Sarah Lawrence. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck.</p>
Where did you get this? It comes across as an absurd euphemism.). I don’t have to feel good about it though. </p>