Appealing Grades - Please Help?

<p>My daughter is in a top 20 university for engineering. I help my daughter with a lot of her work and am very actively involved in her education and she enjoys the help I can provide. One of her classes over the summer is packed and there is a TA a "teaching assistant" that is a PhD student at the University. She has never had a TA before (she is a freshwoman undergraduate) so I suppose we will be running into them more later on. When she approaches her professor for this class, the answer always has been e-mail the TA or ask the TA, etc. My daughter really was hesitant to do this, as the TA is just a student as well. Recently, we were shocked to find out that the TA is actually grading her assignments and exams in addition to the recitation section which he teaches, with only the professor signing off on final grades. While this was disturbing enough, she has gotten really low marks on her assignments which we did together with thoroughness. When she went to the TA's office hours to discuss the grades, the TA refused to change any of the grades. Frustrated with this, we both decided to go in and discuss this with the TA together. I explained to him the amount of work that went into the assignments and that the strict grading was not acceptable. I was disgusted that someone (only probably 25) had so much authority in the grading, and I voiced this to him and requested that all assignments be graded by the professor. He sat there and literally just stared at me as if he was totally disgusted and tired of us and gave very dismissive and curt answers, with no real explanation of what the points were lost on particularly. For instance, on a 10 point problem, my daughter might get a 3/10, and we wanted to know exactly where each of the 7 points were lost (what step), but instead, the grade seemed pulled out of a hat and arbitrary. My daughter then emailed the professor who again insisted she speak to the TA about the grading, but finally consented to have her come in. When she went to the professor's office, she got the same curt answers that it was the "TA's discretion" and that she would not change the grades on these assignments (which constitute 40% of the grade for the class). After hearing this, I was furious and came to see the professor as well, who seemed shocked that a parent would have anything to do with their child's college education or take any part in their life. The professor seemed used to pushing around college kids but didn't really know how to deal with a parent like myself who was focused and on target. We were early to the professor's office hours and me and my daughter carefully went over every concern we had about the assignments and the poor grade she received on the exam. The professor looked it over, but refused to give out even one point, noting that the grading was handled by the TA and that it was mostly subjective and that they just had a "feel" for what the correct grade for these proofs and problems were, but the point distribution was up to the TA. Given this poor response, we filed formal grade appeals with the assistant dean in the college, the dean, the vice provost, and even the provost. All of them refused to take any action until final grades are submitted, but based on her "performance" in the class, the professor says she is in the C range, which is absolutely unacceptable for the amount of work she put into the class. Also, now the TA has stopped responding to our questions, and instead just tells her to come in with questions, probably so its not on record that he isn't helping her. We also filed a formal complaint with the grad oversight organization in the school about the TA to no avail. Who do we need to contact about my daughter's being targeted?</p>

<p>College was never meant to be a family activity so I don’t understand why you are helping her? Anyway the use of TA’s is pretty common and lousy TA’s are just as common. Except for you helping a grown woman with her homework, I’ve read nothing unusual. BTW, In college, I knew a group of people who got help from family for homework and projects. You are not the first, but in my opinion you are not helping your daughter.</p>

<p>Welcome to college, TA’s do the majority of the grading and professors leave it solely in their hands. Yes, they may be only PhD students, but they are being paid to be teaching assistants and their job is to grade and provide office hours, etc. I don’t think your daughter was being targeted before, but your overreaction and over-participation will probably mean she will be targeted now. If there is no curve and you don’t like the idea of her getting only a C, then maybe she should just withdraw from the class now (with or without getting a W). That is the only solution I see.</p>

<p>First of all, I hardly consider an 18 year old girl fresh out of high school who has never lived on her own a “grown woman.” Your response seems to be indicative of the entire message the system has been giving us - to just back off because they don’t want to be bothered. I posted this problem on another forum on a different site asking for help and just got rude and unhelpful answers. What is wrong with this country that it’s a problem for a parent to be actively involved in their child’s life?? My daughter actively seeks my assistance and help as she knows she is likely to get better assistance from me than a tutor. At this point, it seems that we are learning the material together, but I am still able to help her somewhat… I will note I have now also contacted the head of the department as well, as I had missed that before, and I received similar dismissive answers.</p>

<p>I personally find it disgusting that with the soaring costs of education that we place the distribution of grades in the hands of other STUDENTS who AREN’T THE PROFESSOR. At this point, my daughter has told me that the vibe she has gotten from the department and such since these incidents has been negative. We may have to switch schools now because honestly, the response from this school has been abysmal. I believe that the best bet may be a smaller school with more one-on-one student-faculty interaction. This school just seems focused on going through the motions with the least work/interaction possible and throws it to the TAs to handle to give parents and students the illusion of real educational value</p>

<p>First of all, you really should have known your “freshwoman” was going to be taking classes under a TA since this is common knowledge and standard practice. Most TA’s have a masters in the field they are teaching so they aren’t just some random student teaching your kid. Second, amount of effort does not necessarily translate into higher grades. The TA can’t just tell the class that if they work X number of hours, they all get A’s regardless of actual test scores. Third, it probably would be better to transfer to a liberal arts college or something where your kid will get taught by professors and not TA’s</p>

<p>Guys this is either a ■■■■■ or a parent in desperate need of xanax. Either way, don’t feed it.</p>

<p>I’ll be honest. I’m not sure if you’re a real parent or a just graduated hs senior having a spot of fun with us all. But, let’s assume you’re for real.</p>

<p>Professors are trained in teaching their discipline by being TAs. A PhD candidate, who probably has a master’s or enough graduate hours to have earned one, is more than knowlegable enough to handle teaching a freshman class. </p>

<p>Of course your daughter is viewed negatively my the members of the department and other faculty who know that you’ve become as involved as you have. She’s the kid who can’t function without mommy’s/daddy’s interference. They probably question, and rightly so, whether or not she is even capable of handling the work on her own. This will not improve at a smaller school. Why? Faculty are more likely to talk to each other across departments/divisions.</p>

<p>There is really no advice to help you get what you want at this school, but understand that your continued involvement is likely to make the situation worse, not better. Yes, maybe you should look into a transfer for next year, but you might want to ask during the application process how welcoming faculty will be to your level of involvement.</p>

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<p>No. This is crazytalk.</p>

<p>I am not a ‘■■■■■’ or a parent on Xanax. If you disbelieve anything I am telling you, I can easily upload all of the letters I’ve sent and college transcripts/copies of graded papers. I’ve photocopied all the assignments in question.</p>

<p>And as for those of you who feel it is preposterous for a parent to take an active role in college life, I’ll just tell you that you have a very weak grasp of reality, as 2 women I work with are also in their childrens’ lives more than I am in my daughters! My co-worker has gone so far as to plan her childrens’ class schedules, arrange for tutoring, meet with professors, etc. So please, let’s stop all this infighting and focus on real solutions to the problem at hand. </p>

<p>I’ve been thinking of filing a complaint with the department of education and contacting my congresswoman to see what can be done. I will not allow my daughter to become a victim of bureaucracy. </p>

<p>I feel sorry for those of you that have allowed yourselves to be.</p>

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<p>Clearly. Which is part of the problem.</p>

<p>I thought this would be a more intelligent forum with genuine answers, but it appears I was mistaken. All I am getting is more ad hominem attacks and derision. I ask if you don’t have any helpful suggestions that you please don’t say anything.</p>

<p>My helpful suggestion is that you allow your daughter to fight this on her own.</p>

<p>College is not high school. Grades are not given on effort, whatever you seem to think.</p>

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<p>As many of my professors tell me, you don’t lose points, you gain points. Your daughter isn’t starting from ten points and is deducted for incorrect steps. You start at zero points and gain points for sufficient, well-developed answers. In this case, the work wasn’t sufficient.</p>

<p>If your daughter is pulling a C in that class, she is doing C-level work. It is that simple. She’s at a top 20 school, so she is no longer the smartest, brightest person in the room. She is falliable. In that class, she is a C student, and it doesn’t matter if she spent an hour getting that C or ten hours getting that C. I’ve seen students study for three days straight and still fail a test-- they don’t get an A because they studied for three days. They fail, and your daughter (and apparently you) got a C.</p>

<p>If this class is in a department that she will be taking more classes in, I would suggest you get out of this mess as soon as is humanly possible. You have already because the coffee room story of ‘This crazy parent came to my office hours and is way too involved what is he thinking?’ By continuing this further, you are crippling your daugher’s academic reputation and destroying any chance she has at academic respect at this particular institution. You may think you are helping her, but I assure you, this has already been shared as a sign of your daughter’s immaturity and your absurdity.</p>

<p>Now, if the grading was unfar, have her fight it, not you. But you shouldn’t be involved, especially in the schoolwork.</p>

<p>Dad: You have to let our daughter grow up, which means fighting her own battles. Frankly, dealing with a bad teacher is something that she should’ve learned to do in HS. Let her do it. It’s a skill that will carry over and help with bad bosses. GL</p>

<p>TAs grade work and teach recitations at large research universities all the time. Usually in my courses, the TA grades the homework and the professor grades exams. This is how TAs get their funding, many are required to have teaching fellowships to support their research. Professors are incredibly busy doing research and writing grants for funding, they don’t have time to grade everyone’s homework. I wholeheartedly enjoy this system. Many of the TAs I have had are truly extraordinary and brilliant individuals who are passionate about everything they do. They have also given me great advice about graduate school and research.
I am a rising senior at an ivy league school. Apart from knowing my major and somewhat about my extracurricular involvement and future academic plans, my parents are completely hands off. They do not know what courses I am taking. And you know what, they don’t need to because I take care of it all myself. Every honor/award/funded research position I have received has been entirely due to my work. I have also organized my housing and any appointments I have, and have gotten several recommendation letters from professors. I always value my parents opinion when making major decisions, but I do not need them to be involved in my everyday life.
In my experience, overly involved parents are a huge detriment to their child’s development. I always am amused by how many students my age cannot seem to function without their parents. I think that a parent should not have any interaction with their child’s professors regarding academic information. It is completely inappropriate, and I know for a fact that it is incredibly aggravating for professors.</p>

<p>Well clearly your daughter wasn’t qualified for this university but was given acceptance because she is a minority in the field and now you’re finding out she can’t handle the load</p>

<p>Or she just got a crappy TA/isn’t doing as well as you hoped and now you are getting way too involved in her college life and making her seem weird as s### to other students and faculty. </p>

<p>Or you’re s ■■■■■</p>

<p>If this story is true, I am surprised the professor did not get the student expelled for not doing her own work. There are usually clauses in the honor code asking that all of the work be student’s own.</p>

<p>The only problem I see with the TA situation is that he failed to explain to your daughter how she lost her points, but even professors can be lousy in this regard. The normal and viable thing to do would’ve been to immediately switch out of the class to a better TA/professor and treat the TA as if he was a horrible professor.
And as everyone else has stated, you should probably loosen your grip on your daughter’s education a bit. Think about the many problems she will have to face as an adult from now on; will she have to come to you every time she needs a battle fought? What happens when you are no longer here—will she be able to function as a capable person without your assistance? College is one of the experiences that turns us 18-year olds into full fledged adults, so yes, she may not be the serious adult yet, but how do you expect her to be one if you give her so much attention? It’s the same concept as spoiling a child. Ease up a bit so she can learn decide by herself.
Also, it’s only a C, are you seriously going to bring this up with the state congresswoman?</p>

<p>I’ve worked in state politician’s office. This is what would happen if she called:
An intern would answer the phone and take down her story.
Said intern would take problem to supervisor.
Supervisor would laugh and say “she wants us to do what?”
Intern would call back and say “Unfortunately there’s nothing we can do but we’ll be sure to bring it to politician’s attention.”
Note would get thrown out.</p>

<p>I am going with this being a real post. Please listen to the advise of the folks here, you came here for our opinions. A large university is going to use TA’s, plain and simple. Sounds like you are finding out this is not a good connect for your daughter. But there are other issues as well, you keep referring to the homework etc in plural terms. College is not something you & your daughter should be doing together. The honor code has been brought up but there is also the issue of the need for your daughter to grow more independent and earn to deal with personal & academic issues. As parents we will be there to guide our kids, but at college it is time to let them grow their wings. It can and often is a painful process, but you are doing your daughter no favors at this point. Please step back and let your daughter grow up and take care of herself.</p>

<p>I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. Of course the professors have TAs that grade and lead recitations. Heck, it’s pretty likely that homework assignments (but not exams) are graded by undergrads who have taken and done well in the course.</p>

<p>At a good engineering university, a PhD student at the school should definitely be qualified to run office hours, grade exams, and lead recitations. If anything, your daughter should take advantage of the fact that she has this resource. Sure, not all grad students are good instructors (neither are all professors for that matter), but my experience with TAs has been largely awesome. Not only do they often have more time to devote to the class, they’re easier to approach, can be great at explaining things, and are close enough to where you are that they can understand the student’s point of view. TAs are generally awesome and hugely beneficial to your learning experience. Also, a lot of them have been where you are and genuinely care about helping you understand the material.</p>

<p>Maybe he was just grumpy because he was approached by an adult student (who should be independent!) and her mother. If you’re not a ■■■■■, you need to take a step back and let your daughter find her own way. </p>

<p>My advice would be for her to apologize to the TA, explain that she’s having trouble with the assignments, and ask if he’d be willing to meet with her to go over some of the material. Also, if she’s not attending office hours, she should try to go regularly.</p>