Appealing Studio Assignments

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>My D received her studio assignment from Eastman today....and it wasn't the teacher she'd requested. She'd had a sample lesson with a well-known mezzo who'd just joined their staff on our first visit. The chemistry was instantly there and, while the sample is normally expected to be a sort of "test drive", my kid actually came out saying she'd learned things she could take away with her. </p>

<p>The two of them passed emails a few times afterward, including after my D was accepted. The teacher said that this was the first time she'd been through studio assignments at the school but recommended that my D be sure to request her.</p>

<p>Today she got assigned a different teacher who, while he has an extremely impressive resume, is just not the one she'd hoped for.</p>

<p>According to Eastman's Web site, assignments are made based on requests by the student and the teacher, mitigated by the teacher's studio load.</p>

<p>I'm posting this to ask for advise on if and how she should appeal the assignment. I know that at some schools, studio assignments can be a highly political thing but, she'd at least like to try and make the change. Should she go to the department or contact the teacher directly? Should she give this new guy a chance and try to make the change if he doesn't work out?</p>

<p>In truth, this is the first major issue in this entire process (aside from hoping for more money) that hasn't gone as she'd hoped. Part of me feels that we should be happy to get this far before facing the first bump in the road, but she feels so strongly about this appointment, I felt it was worth it to at least soliciting opinions about whether appealing the assignment is:</p>

<p>a) smart
b) worth the trouble
c) asking for trouble
d) hopeless</p>

<p>We'd appreciate whatever guidance anyone cares to offer.</p>

2

<p>I would email the teacher she wanted and ask her. If the teacher wanted her, then she can go the extra mile to investigate why the Student’s request was not honored. Maybe the teacher messed up and didn’t indicate a desire to teach the student, so student was put into the pool. In that case, the Teacher may be able to get the problem fixed.</p>

3

<p>Don, the Dean of Admissions at Eastman, who has a great deal to do with that whole process, has left for a new job at CIM, so I’d say to try an appeal. Of course, talk to the teacher first though- I do know that she has quite a number of students now, and it could be that she ended up overbooked. Keep us posted on this.</p>

4

<p>I would PM Lorelei for her opinion.It probably is just as simple as too many students requested her. Depending on the age of her students, she may have had only a few openings. Did she tell your D how many openings she anticipated in her studio for fall? I would imagine the grad students get to pick first, then perhaps those who really need to switch studios, leaving undergrads to fill in. My instinct would be for D to talk to the teacher she wanted first to see the circumstances. She can hopefully get a sense of whether there is any chance a change can be made. If it won’t then she will have saved having to enter a studio with it known that she appealed. She could also try to take a sample lesson this summer with the teacher who is assigned. She may really like him. Have you researched him on a couple of other forums that cater to opera?</p>

5

<p>Weighing in…I suspect she had more requests than she could honor, and she has prioritized in some way…it could be all graduate students (though that would be foolish on her part), or more likely a distribution through the various classes, so she will have rolling turnover in the studio. Some schools require that performance majors have priority of music education in studio assignment requests. It was disingenuous of her to tell your daughter to ask for her if she knew she had an overload of requests…it makes her look good, but it does not help your daughter (or the other students) make (alternate) plans. It is vaguely possible that a mistake was made, but I doubt it. </p>

<p>You could be in communication with the dean for applied music, ask for your daughter to have the chance to have a meeting or communication via e-mail with other teachers with whom she might be interested in studying. For instance, if were several teachers at her audition, she could ask for their feedback about her singing, how they reacted to her. </p>

<p>It is unfortunate this is happening to her, and there is no easy solution. IMHO, the school does not do right by students when things like this happen. Good luck.</p>

6

<p>Here is another thought…perhaps the teacher from the studio to which the young lady was assigned heard her audition and requested her as a student. In our experience…both students AND teachers were permitted to make requests at some schools.</p>

7

<p>It is too bad that the assignments were not made until after the acceptances. That was one thing that concerned DD in a few of the schools. For one school high on her list, it did not seem to matter as much since she liked several of the teachers anyhow. In others it was a disqualifying point. </p>

<p>I think that if the schools do not offer acceptances into a specific studio they should allow you to discuss the likelihood or where you would stand in the line for getting professors you would like. Our impression was that if both requested each other and there was room, the match was made. If not, then the professor’s choice, in order, held sway. If one professor had the student high on their list and the other not as high, it may go to the first one. Since everyone talks about the importance of the teacher, it seems only fair to have some idea who would be studying with before you accept.</p>

8

<p>I’m not sure it’s realistic to have all studio assignments worked out prior to acceptance. If there are grad students in the program, it makes sense to me that they get priority. Current students having trouble in a particular studio should also have priority. There may be no way to work all that out prior to acceptance.One of the teachers at my D’s school retired and the students in his studio got first dibs on teachers - as they should, so numbers of slots in studios were a bit up in the air, but everyone knew that going in. I do think the teacher should say to an interested undergrad that he/she cannot guarantee enrollment in his/her studio so that can be factored in. Then the discussion can be had as to other faculty members who might be good choices and more sample lessons can be arranged. A similar thing happened to an acquaintance of my D’s at a well known conservatory. She thought, from conversations, that she was going to be in a very high profile studio and talked all summer about how excited she was. Then, in the fall, she was assigned to a different teacher. She is still lukewarm about this teacher, but part of that may be based on the disappointment factor. </p>

<p>I really believe that the chances are good that the assigned teacher will be fine, because the caliber of teaching at Eastman is excellent by all accounts. I believe that choosing a teacher based on one sample lesson is a crap shoot anyway.</p>

9

<p>I agree with Singersmom is this regard – particularly since we’ve said all along that the most important deciding factor was the availability of a teacher that the student could work with. You say cartera45 that selecting a teacher on the basis of one practice lesson is a crap shoot, but I am not so sure that is true. Further, in my daughter’s particular case, in some instances there were several practice lessons – not use one. And where she actually ended up – she had gone to summer camp and had requested the professor with whom she had worked over the summer. While there are several professors with whom she would work at that particular school, we would be dismayed if she didn’t get the professor who she requested. I guess I’m a little sensitive to the idea that institutions of higher education need to be a little bit more customer-oriented. To re-iterate Singersmom07 – it seems reasonable to have some assurance that you will be studying with the person who drove your decision to select a particular school.</p>

10

<p>Good luck Don (and daughter) in working this out.</p>

11

<p>KeyofH - your D’s situation is the exception not the rule. Most people are lucky if they get one sample lesson with a teacher. I think people feel better going into a program in which they feel as though they have some control in choosing a teacher and that attitude can go a long way in creating a successful relationship. I think you can rule a lot of people out in one lesson - although it won’t necessarily be the right decision since it may be based on the mood of the day or personality. It makes sense that a high school student wants to be nurtured so some may gravitate towards what seems to be the most nurturing personality. That personality may not be the best in the long run. One lesson can certainly inform a decision, but a bti of luck is involved in finding the best fit, IMO.</p>

12

<p>I cannot talk with direct experience about music schools per se, but I have had fair dealings with schools and orther organizations, and it never hurts to try and find out what happened with the teacher she was hoping to study with. I can’t see any teacher getting upset if a potential student/parent e-mailed them and asked them what happened,if anything it probably would stroke their ego a bit if the student in question had that opinion about them, that they found that teacher to be good,etc. Given the size of these programs it could be the teacher had open slots but somehow that never got communicated down the line, it could be they were overbooked and simply could not take on a new student and the last comer was the first cut off so to speak. Appealing a decision when you don’t know what happened seems to be a waste of time, since it could be simply there was no room in the inn. Plus getting in touch like this shows the teacher that the applicant was really interested and it could pay off down the road if an opening does come up and the student wants to switch. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if it was a bureacratic snafu (where the office thought the teacher was full) or if something else weird happened, like another teacher poached the student, an appeal might bear some fruit. I suspect that an appeal where the teacher simply had no open slots would have little chance of success, since chances are those put into the slots were felt to have priority over the applicant in the first place.</p>

13

<p>I agree with musicprnt. Since the time I went back to school for post-graduate work I tend to rail against the behavior of institutions which sometimes resembles that of kindergarten teachers and/or disciplinarians. Students are not second class students. They are consumers who pay the salaries of the faculty and the administrative staff. They have a right to question the services they are getting or not getting. And as is true with anything in life, mistakes are made and issues are reconsidered.</p>

<p>Cartera – with all due respect, I feel that there are some underlying assumptions that you may be making about my daughter’s situation and that of other students. My daughter applied a number of criteria in evaluating potential teachers and the relationship that might evolve. Nurturing might have been one of them. However, her current voice teacher provided her with a list of very specific criteria to apply in evaluating the practice lesson teachers, which she systematically applied. Many of these criteria had to do with specific approaches to technique and artfulness, etc. and had little to do with personality. And it’s a good thing because we found most of the teachers to be absolutely delightful personality-wise and most were incredibly nurturing. Assuming that personality is the only or most important criteria applied by students in evaluating a teacher, I think, might be underestimating the decision-making capabilities of many students. By 17 most kids I’ve come in contact with know the difference between a “nice” teacher and an effective teacher.</p>

<p>As for our daughter’s experience being unusual (re more than one practice lesson with the same prof.), that may in fact be unusual, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. Here’s the thing, cartera45 – the world’s out there for the tasting. If you don’t ask for it, you probably won’t get it. If you don’t reach for it, your probably won’t know how high you can reach. I think that’s a more important lesson to pass on to students who are pursuing a music education and a music career. And it’s a practice lesson that comes in quantities greater than one.</p>

14

<p>keyofH - I didn’t mean to suggest that your D chose based on nurturing - that comment was directed at how easy it is to choose based on personality when there is just one sample lesson. I had already distinguished your D’s situation from that and moved on. Because of your D’s familiarity with the teacher from past experiences, I’m sure that many things other than personality were considered. </p>

<p>My post was directed at those who try to make the best decision possible based on one lesson. I think getting a really good handle on technique - especially the needs over a 4 year period - is very difficult based on one lesson. One sample lesson per teacher is the best that most people can do, because of time/monetary limitations and limitations of the teachers. I would be surprised if the most sought after teachers at the most sought after conservatories are willing to arrange multiple sample lessons for undergrads - unless there is a unique voice type involved. If a soprano is headed towards Wagner, then all bets may be off.</p>

15

<p>I don’t want to beat a dead horse here, because I think this was addressed on the 25 lesson thread, but multiple lessons aren’t “there for the tasting” at many/most top conservatories. Aside from this poster, I have never heard of anyone who had multiple lessons with one or more teacher, so I’d venture to guess that it is unusual. Perhaps I am the ignorant one for not asking, but it seemed that such a request would be an imposition on a busy professional’s time (so I would have discouraged my son from attempting to arrange multiple lessons, even if he had wanted to…which he didn’t). </p>

<p>Since KeyofH’s D’s potential teachers didn’t seem to mind, and in fact, honored the request, it all worked out for this student. However, I could see it backfiring too, and students should be aware of the potential pitfalls to such a strategy.</p>

16

<p>Key of H-</p>

<p>I firmly believe that when dealing with organizations, especially schools, making decisions, that people should question decisions they don’t understand or feel are contrary to what they expected. With your D, it could be a lot of things, it could be the teacher wanted to teach her but was overbooked, it could be that the teacher forgot to put in that she would like to teach your D, someone could have mistakenly assumed the teacher didn’t teach first year students. Whatever the reason, a student has to take care of their college career and asking questions is really critical to that. It is very easy in any kind of bureacracy to get lost in the shuffle, or for those running it to assume that what to the student is a weird decision was okay with them since they didn’t hear any complaints. </p>

<p>Especially in the case where she/you felt the decision turned out not as you had thought when accepting admission to the school, it is important to put your hand up and say “hey,I have a question, not so fast”. The worse that will happen is that you will find out why things turned out like that, that it wasn’t a screw up, that it was simply the way things worked out; the best is that the decision could be changed. If you don’t even try to question it, the outcome will be the worse of the two outcomes, guaranteed, the one you aren’t totally on board with (when I say worse, I mean the one you weren’t expecting; no way to know in the long run what they will be)</p>

<p>Plus by asking questions, the teacher and the administration will kind of be forced to take note of your D, albeit in different ways. To the teacher, I would hope that they would see that your D wanted to work with them and was willing to put forth effort to find out why it didn’t work that way, which shows frankly a caring music student serious about what they are doing.To the administration, specifically those making the decisions about issues in the student’s time at the school, it kind of gives them a heads up this student won’t just take anything and in my experience that can be really valuable down the road, the old saw about the squeaky wheel getting the grease is true. You don’t have to be (shouldn’t be) beligerent, but a rational, calm series of questions can do a lot if not to change the present situation, to set the stage for a better outcome down the road IME. </p>

<p>Especially when it comes to teachers in music, good outcomes I have found are based very much in the dynamics between a teacher and student and one size doesn’t fit all. Not so much that a high level music program like Eastman or Juilliard et al will have duds (if any at all) but that teachers generally work better with some students then others,and especially when someone is serious about working in music, any edge a student can get from having a teacher that ‘clicks’ with them is going to prove its worth down the road I believe. At the very least, I think asking the teacher via e-mail is a good first step:)</p>

17

<p>musicprnt…I believe it was don992 whose daughter didn’t get the studio assignment she hoped for. KeyofH’s daughter did, I believe.</p>

<p>I will venture one thought. Especially in the world of sopranos and flutes…you might NOT always get exactly what you ask for. Many schools have multiple teachers for these instruments and LOTS of students who are talented on both. When there are multiple studios for a voice part or instruments, the college must really fill all of those studios. Hopefully requests can be honored but that is not always possible. Each of us has to remember that the school has MANY students to deal with, not just OUR child.</p>

18

<p>I agree with Thumper – as far as I know, my daughter got the teacher she requested. It was Don992 who was looking for advice in appealing the process. What you say is true, Thumper – the school has many students to deal with – not just my child. However, my child (and the children of many posters on this thread) were accepted to many other schools. Their decision to settle on a single school may have been predicated on having access to a particular teacher. </p>

<p>And Musicprnt – I agree with what you say. Students who are really interested in good outcomes need to press, appropriately, for what they want.</p>

19

<p>I seem to have really started something with this thread. Mrs. 9992, my D, and I can’t thank you all enough for the valuable input. It’s really helped us see the situation from a number of perspectives.</p>

<p>My D was appalled at first, as much because she wasn’t sure how things would work out with a male teacher as not getting her first choice. As she thought about it and looked at his credentials though, she’s warmed up to the idea somewhat and doesn’t have the end-of-the-world, my-career-is-screwed feeling she did at first.</p>

<p>That’s all well and good, but here’s where I stand: I’m quite bothered by the fact that, after doing things EXACTLY the way Eastman said they wanted them done, there wasn’t so much as an acknowledgment that she’d even requested a specific teacher. I feel that she’s owed some kind of explanation. The choice to pursue it is, ultimately hers, but I really hope she calls them out on it.</p>

<p>In the meantime, she’s seeking advice from her local voice teacher, who happens to be a very good tactician on such matters, as well as some friends who are current Eastman students to check out the rep her assigned teacher has among the student body.</p>

<p>I’ll let you know what happens.</p>

20

<p>My bad, had a complete blowout with this one!</p>

<p>I understand that schools and students often have to make compromises and sometimes the outcome isn’t what either might have wanted or expected, but I also think that the student has a right or need to know if something happens that is different then they expected, especially if in some cases their decision to attend a certain school may have been predicated upon a specific teacher being the one they were looking towards (and before someone points out the obvious, I am not saying that is necessarily a wise thing to do, that students and parents have to be realistic about teachers, especially if the teacher either doesn’t take a lot of students or simply is very much in demand. You don’t want to end up like many students of Dorothy Delay, where they often ended up doing lessons very late at night or driving to her house in nanuet at some weird day and time, because she had some ridiculous number of students…); I am simply saying that schools should realize that what to them might be an administrative issue to a student might be a lot more…schools want total honesty from the applications kids submit (if a kid put down they were concertmaster of a large, well known youth orchestra and they found out the kid barely made it into the program, I think at the very least they might get a bit miffed, even if the kid turned out to be talented enough to pass the audition) and kids should have some clarity.</p>

<p>I am not talking about the original post of don’s per se, but if there was some sort of expectation that wasn’t met though there very well could be good reasons why it didn’t work, there to me is a duty for the school to be willing to explain what happened. Using current headlines as an analogy, it is sort of like when the leaders in Iran admit there were voting irregularities in an election many felt was rigged but then expect people to take that as no big deal, if an applicant felt there was some agreement about studying with a particular teacher and it didn’t happen, there cannot be an automatic assumption that the student will be okay with that, or at the least questioning it (and again, I am talking hypothetically, I am not criticizing the school in this case or any specific case I know of, it is a hypothetical). I have seen where institutions like schools make decisions and then are shocked when they get challenged and I am saying that in this case or any like it they should expect that, when often expectations do run into having a particular teacher. It is not the same thing as a chemistry professor or a comp sci professor, it is a very different relationship with non standard teaching…</p>

<p>Anyway, Don, your daughter probably will be fine, if this particular teacher doesn’t work out I assume there are ways to request another teacher. Knowing the intensity of kids studying music, I can imagine what your D was feeling seeing the result, but from talking to more then a few musicians and hearing there stories, I would be surprised if over time she doesn’t find the right path, if not with this teacher, then with another one:)</p>