Ok so my D has a friend who’s applying for MT programs . He is applying at all the big boys, CMU, Ithaca, etc. he doesn’t seem to know how many applicants these schools get. I can’t believe he doesn’t know what kind of pool he is putting himself in numbers wise and he only has one safety school and it’s still audition based. Can anyone give me an idea how many applicants these big name schools get? Like isn’t CMU 1000? We need to give him this info so he knows he needs to broaden his list asap! I don’t think he knows how truly few kids these schools take.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/503504-audition-class-size-numbers-p1.html
Wright State is not what many consider one of the “big boys”, but recent numbers (I believe for 2015-16 freshman class) are 450 auditioned with 8% accepted (MT/Acting). In the past, WSU has done “rolling” acceptances, but apparently every student who was accepted committed last year, so they no longer do rolling acceptance - and perhaps this also means fewer acceptances this year.
@mom4bwayboy I am not sure if wright is on his list but I consider it a def reach school too for reason of low admittance. Thanks for that number I will relay the info. We know a girl auditioning there also but her list is very versatile with a lot of variation. We are just concerned about his lack of safeties. He’s talented but we all know that’s just part of the pkg. We are running into kids left and right with no safeties. Like none. Hate to see them get in a pickle if the others don’t work out!
thanks for that link @arwarw
Its not just the size of the audition pool, its the level of talent in the pool, the limited numbers of each type accepted by most programs, the very small class sizes at many programs, etc. The top programs attract top applicants from across the nation - they can pick and choose from among students who are of the caliber of YoungArts finalists, for example, looking for just a couple of each type.
Yes @EmsDad we are trying to tell him that he can’t get hung up on a few schools because of the name. That’s what is happening. I also told him to look up you tube videos of the schools showcases etc and see what he’s up against. Like the level of talent these schools are seeing plus yes trying to also tell him about the type and on and on… I try to get my D out of her bubble but apparently no other parents are doing this! Lol
any idea on Univ of the Arts numbers? Pool and how many they normally take for MT? I searched for this school and cannot find any info on numbers…
I don’t think you need the exact number of how many applicants applied and how many accepted to each and every school on the list. What this kid (or anyone) needs to understand is that the acceptance rate to most BFA in MT programs is in the single digits. Whether it is 4% or 6% isn’t going to change his chances. So, he needs to know that the overall acceptance rate is somewhere between 2 and 10% at most programs. Sometimes, it is higher for boys, but it is still quite low. So, there’s that.
But then the talent pool and the depth of it varies among programs. As mentioned in another post, other things go into the odds, such as tippy top programs can pick from the tippy top candidates nationally. And then there is type which you can’t control for. This student should be aware which programs are often considered the most competitive to get into and which draw from a national pool of top talent.
That is mainly the message you need to get across and not the exact numbers for each and every program. His list needs to be balanced in terms of academic odds (in relation to his profile) and artistic odds (range of the most competitive to lesser known programs, etc.) and non-audition safeties. As well, a list needs to be appropriate to that applicant and the same schools are not right for all kids. He should have an assessment of his talent on a bigger playing field to get an idea if he is in the ballpark for certain programs. Those who have gone to summer programs or have auditioned in a national talent pool or have competed in one, can get a sense of where they stand in relation. A coach who has advised students in this field can also assess the candidate’s viability for schools on their list. The right list for a particular student is one key to a successful outcome.
@soozievt is right.
I did a lot of digging last year and calculated the odds of a lot of programs … and I think the best odds were a 20% chance. And that was at a program that most would consider non-competitive. (And if memory serves me, the 20% was for boys only - girls were 10%.)
@theaterwork, at some point though, you may have to realize you cannot save this friend from himself. It is so nice of you to use what you have learned to try. And perhaps things will work out for him anyway but for sure, he could also be in for a rude awakening. I know @bisouu has had experience with this and eventually had to throw in the towel and let things play out. It can be hard to watch. It also can just work out.
We have a young friend who is doing the same thing. He absolutely would not hear of auditioning at schools outside the most selective and “known,” even when we told him actual numbers of many programs. Finally, he changed his mind ever so slightly, and now his plan is that he may apply to others (still difficult to be admitted–in the 5-10% chance range), but that he is waiting until after early audition results at a program he has staked all of his hopes on. He believes he doesn’t need to worry about matches or safeties. His mom has expressed frustration to me about his lack of reality (which was exacerbated by the head of a program who supposedly told a selective summer camp group, of which this guy was a part, that all alumni of this camp get into their top choices).
A mom of a girl going through the audition process this year posted one of those “rank of best MT programs” articles on her D’s FB wall a couple days ago. I couldn’t help thinking about how much pressure that places on the D–which is worse to me because it’s based on a subjective article written by who-knows-who using who-knows-what measures.(Can you tell I’m not a fan of those articles/lists?)
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@KaMaMom, I remember in my D’s year, BoCo had an 18%-20% acceptance rate. That was one of the highest (based on pure numbers alone). Rider and NYU also have large incoming classes, so the acceptance percentages are higher. But this doesn’t mean that these schools are easy to get into, as you know.
@theaterwork, my D also did not have a safety. She applied to 16 schools, all audition schools. While a few were considered “lower tier” than others, she did not have any BA programs, or any non-audition programs. I do not recommend it…until that first acceptance came in, I was petrified. But, her reasoning was this: I am not going to apply to a school that I wouldn’t be happy to attend (although I admit she changed her mind about some of them after visits or during auditions, but we didn’t know that she would hate them when she applied. She liked them on paper.); I definitely want a BFA program; if none of these 16 schools wants me, I probably don’t have what it takes to make it so I may as well give up now.
Yup, this last reason was for real. She truly believed this. And I could see her point, although I am very familiar with all the stories of people who got rejected from all the schools and ended up on Broadway, etc. But my D thought it was a good indicator of her chances for success. And she wasn’t alone…one of her college classmates did the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. It’s a personal choice. BUT, both of these girls went in with eyes wide open. They KNEW the odds were slim. They KNEW they could very well get in nowhere. Luckily, they both got in to great programs.
I think the only thing you can do is tell your D’s friend that it is really tough out there. The odds are, in many cases, lower than getting into an Ivy. And, try to make him understand that it is not only about talent. He may be the best 6’ tenor out there this audition season, but if a school already has a plethora of leading men, they won’t want him. And as long as he knows this, and believes it, then the rest is his choice. Hope it works out for him.
Yeah @halflokum I guess I should keep my nose out of it. Just trying to be helpful. If I thought he was just choosing the well known programs because he thought they were the best fit for him then I’m ok with that but I know the reason he’s choosing them is because of name recognition. It’s just like when you google “best MT programs” and all those names and articles come up & you wrote those schools down & that’s your list. I guess you could use the argument that you stated @monkey13 about your child saying if she couldn’t make it into the programs she chose then she didn’t have what it takes to make it. My D has said that herself about not wanting a non audition school. I can see both sides of this. Obviously the more schools you apply to the higher chance you have of acceptance somewhere. Plus adding those schools that draw from a more regional pool with less applicants has now become more then half of my D’s list . She seems to be ok with the school as long as it is audition based regardless of how many actually apply. That’s what I was trying to get him to see , that he has other options and there are other programs that are great and not well known .
S applied to 14 schools and his friends and teachers seem to think it is way too many. Through pre-screening, he was knocked out of four (re-directed to acting), so now he’s down to 10 MT. He has confirmed two acting auditions and let the others go. He has three other friends in this year’s audition pool, all girls. Two of the girls have applied to 6 schools each, all audition. The other has applied to 3 schools, plus a non-audition safety where she is already accepted. While he is surprised how few schools the girls are applying to, they don’t seem to be worried at all. I think it is giving him a false sense of security. One of his schools might possibly be a safety for him (as he knows the faculty), but there is no guarantee. He has decided not to apply to non-audition BAs as he is certain he wants a BFA program. We’ve talked about other options–a year off working toward next year’s audition season, a year doing gen-eds at junior college while trying out for shows, a year staying with family in Europe. He’ll listen to me talk, but I don’t think he really believes he will have to go to plan B. Pre-screening results and early auditions have made him wake up to the fact that there is an overabundance of talent of all “types” out there, but he is still set on going for an audition-BFA. Part of his reasoning is that he wants to be in a challenging, intensive environment where everyone is at the same level of commitment and talent (though, as I understand it, there are many BA programs where the non-auditioned talent is just as hot as the BFA programs). I have to keep remembering that he is only 17 and is full of youthful optimism. If the worst comes to the worst, I’ll have another year of him living at home, which would be wonderful for me! When I’m not worrying about him, I’m anxious for his three girl friends, who, in my opinion, have way too much optimism and not enough applications in!
When my D applied, she also only applied to BFA in MT programs, with no safeties. I hate to admit that because I always recommend two non-audition safeties. She applied to 8 schools. Since that was 10 years ago, today, I would change her list to 10-12 schools. Yes, I was nervous, but I did think she was a viable candidate for a BFA in MT and had some benchmarks that I think gave some indication she’d get into one. As it turned out, she got into more than that.
As far as NYU, while it is a bigger program, it has a high number of applicants. For the MT studio ,the acceptance rate is around 6%. For Acting studios, it is higher, possibly as high as 20%. There are more acting studios, ,but just one MT studio at Tisch.
For anyone who has a child who won’t diversify his/her college apps to include safety/non-BFA programs, what is the plan if your child doesn’t get in anywhere?
@claire74 lists a number of good options for her son but what about others?
@monkey113 it’s great that your daughter got into a program that makes her happy, but to her point of, “…if none of these 16 schools wants me, I probably don’t have what it takes to make it so I may as well give up now,” (this question is for anyone whose kid feels that way), so what’s plan B?
I have a daughter who is a senior BFA and a son who is a HS senior auditioning now, and if he doesn’t get into any BFAs, he’ll still be going to college next year, even with an undecided major. He fortunately has good grades, so I know he’ll get into a college academically. If he feels like @monkey113 's daughter does, he’ll have to find another field, and a college degree is a prerequisite for many fields anyway.
I’d love to hear other solutions.
Thanks!
@claire74 I totally agree on the girls with 3-6 schools.(especially if they are some of the more selective programs) I know it is difficult to manage the application/audition process…but we have seen some of our very talented, high school and community theatre star friends experience some big disappointment over the last few years…
We never discussed Plan B!
However, I have a nephew who applied for a specific type of arts degree program and got into NONE. He took a GAP year, in which he had an internship in his field, a regular job, more training, and that year I advised him on his college selection and admissions process, and then he got into all but one of the schools on his new list for the same chosen field. A gap year can be a good thing.
One more thought–we MT parents are in a paradoxical position when it comes to prepping our kids. On the one hand, they need us to constantly boost their confidence so that they are able to let their talent shine in auditions. On the other, we have to remind them all the time that there is a huge amount of talent all wanting the same few spots, thereby eroding their confidence!