<p>I am looking for advice from parents whose kids have applied to college with a juvenile record. We finally found the right high school for our son who is doing amazingly well as he enters his senior year, thankfully. However, he does have an adjudication with probation for a misdemeanor non-drug related offense on his record. I have real concerns about explaining the incident on The Common App considering that 300 schools have access to it. Juvenile records are generally sealed and eventually expunged. Why have the information out floating on the internet where a youthful mistake could haunt him the rest of his life? Any real life examples you could share would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>I don't have any advice or examples, but I have wondered also why people are not more concerned about personal information, as you say, floating out there on the internet--college board, common app, emails between students and college, etc. I think you raise a good point.</p>
<p>I don't have any direct experience with this, but at my kid's high school the college counselors sometimes wrote letters for students who had special circumstances or disciplinary actions. Would it be possible for him to talk to his counselor and handle it with a letter to each college instead of sending it out on the common application through the internet?</p>
<p>Carolyn, I have no experience with this, but is it reportable? Does the common app ask for reporting a "conviction" and was convicted. I don't know what it asks, bc I have not looked at the latest version of the common app. I am not sure what "adjudication" means vs. "conviction", but I would look at the language in the questions they are asking on the apps. I would answer by telling the truth, but not offer information that is not asked for.</p>
<p>When was this misdemeanor? I had a moderate juvenille record (one misdemeanor drug case, three or four drinking tickets, several other tickets). I don't have to report any of this, because, at least in Illinois, all juvenille non-felonies are completely expunged when you turn seventeen. My counselor explained that this means I don't have to report them.</p>
<p>I haven't looked at the common app, so I don't know how applicable this is, but the case that sticks in my mind is that of Gina Grant.</p>
<p>First of all, I read that Gina Grant had a jury trial and was convicted of murder. The OP is talking about a misdemeanor non-drug related offense, and I don't know what adjudication means vs. conviction. I would tell the truth in answering all question, but I would only answer the questions that are being asked. Disclaimer-I have no experience with this type of thing.</p>
<p>In the legal context I believe adjudication is simply the judicial decision...the decision could be anything conviction, acquiital, deferred...etc. I'm going to have to go look at the common app again, I don't remember applications asking for anything but felony offenses when my oldest was filling out apps a couple summers ago.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Disciplinary History
a Have you ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at an educational institution you have attended from 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in your probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from
the institution? p Yes p No
b Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor, felony, or other crime? p Yes p No
If you answered yes to either or both questions, please attach a separate sheet of paper that gives the approximate date of each incident and explains the circumstances.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is the question. I would tell my children to answer it truthfully. Fortunately, they can answer no to both questions.</p>
<p>I guess the answer to the OP's question, in regard to have you ever been convicted.....is if her son was "convicted" or not.</p>
<p>Additionally, if he was convicted, and he needs to report the conviction, he does not necessarily have to use the common app. if you do not feel comfortable using the internet to explain. Many schools still have their own paper application, but the applicant might need to pay an application fee that would have been waived if using the online app. or the common app. (depends upon the school).</p>
<p>You should call the police station and ask what class it it. I got into trouble for curfew (which someone told me was a misdemeanor), and it wasn't even classified as a crime, if I remember right. Luckily, mine only asked if I had been convicted of a felony.</p>
<p>You should also check each school's own app. Sometimes a school's own app does not ask the same questions that are on the common app. It might be worth it to fill out an individual app for each school if it avoids having to answer yes to these types of questions.</p>
<p>Whether they have baggage or not, I always advocate looking at both the school specific app and the common app to see which makes a kid's credentials shine brighter.</p>
<p>First, I would get the advice of a lawyer. In some states (but not all) juvenile records are expunged when the child turns 18 and don't have to be reported on employment or college applications. In other states, juvenile records are sealed, but not expunged, and that raises different questions about what has to be revealed in order to answer truthfully. As suggested, adjudication and probation might have a different connotation in some states than conviction. You need to know how the law in your state applies. Not just for college applications, but for future employment applications and background checks in the future.</p>
<p>That said, I have talked with a number of college admissions directors about this issue. Most have told me that the reason they are asking this question is to try to identify students who might cause legal and/or safety problems in the campus community. If a student has only one minor, non-violent strike so to speak against them, and honestly explains what happened, and what they learned, and how it will never happen again, most admissions people say that minor violations will not be a deciding issue. To a person, however, they have all also said that if a student omitted information that was later discovered, they would feel they had grounds for withdrawing their offer of admission.</p>
<p>Of course, we don't know (nor should you say on a public forum like this) what your son's misdemeanor was, nor do we know which colleges he is applying to, but you might want to also talk with an independent college counselor who can give you some advice about his specific situation with all the facts at hand. I would not discuss it with the school counselor unless you are absolutely certain of the school's policy about disclosing arrests and convictions in school recommendations. </p>
<p>Overall though, my sense, from the little you have told us (and again, I would strongly recommend that you NOT share additional details in a public forum like this), is that it will not be a huge issue, nor keep your son from getting into college, if he does decide to answer the question truthfully. </p>
<p>With all that said, I'll leave you with one last thing to consider: as the parent of two college students, I personally would hope that students would be honest and upfront about disclosing past offenses. It sounds like your son's offense was minor, and hopefully it won't affect his chances anywhere. However, I would hate to see someone with a more severe offense take the advice being given here in order to hide their legal background from colleges. After all, they might end up at colleges that my kids, your son, and other studnets attend. Given recent events, we do unfortunately need to ask these sorts of questions - and have them answered honestly when it is appropriate -- in hopes of keeping campuses safer. I am sure many will disagree with me, but it is something to consider.</p>
<p>I am NOT offering legal advice to anyone. We are merely chatting. An intellectual discussion as it were. I am only licensed in one state. Chances are it is not the OP's. Even if it was , call your own attorney (as I could be off my meds :eek:). </p>
<p>The question raised is one of "conviction" as in "convicted" of a crime. Adjudications of juvenile delinquency would rarely (if ever) be considered a criminal conviction. 1) It's not a criminal case. 2) It's not a conviction.</p>
<p>If the common app wanted to ferret out this info they could do like one of our state legislatures did when they came up with this jewel they use in a state funded scholarship app I just found on the net:</p>
<p>"This is to certify that I have not been adjudicated delinquent, convicted, or pled guilty or nolo contendere......."</p>
<p>That catches unadjudicated probations (wherein the court finds that there is enough evidence to find you guilty but chooses not to do so if you do certain things- also called deferred adjudication) , juvenile proceedings (which by definition are NOT criminal and thus the word conviction is never used) , as well as actual convictions in criminal cases.</p>
<p>Pretty much got to bare your soul on that one. </p>
<p>The language posted as being the q's on the Common App demands much less of the signatory. Should it? That's for a whole nother thread. ;)</p>
<p>Hey, I am not an attorney, do not even know what adjudication means, and pretty much nailed it. Thanks for your opinion in Curm. Sounds like the bottom line is check with your attorney, and then answer what is asked truthfully.</p>
<p>I don't think the OP or anyone here is advocating lying, just completely understanding the question asked (if any) as it pertains to the student's situation, in order to answer truthfully. You certainly don't want to compound a previous mistake by lying.</p>
<p>As far as being concerned about privacy, you could have your S complete a paper app or send any necessary explanations via snail mail to limit exposure. Kids will often send additional info to online apps under separate cover.</p>
<p>In NYS, those under 16 are adjudicated as juvenile delinquents for offenses which, if committed by an adult would be a crime (sounds similar to what cur posted about Ohio). These adjudications included serious felony offenses of which any school would understandably want notice, regardless of how the common app question is worded. </p>
<p>If, however, any the schools to which OP's S will apply somehow find out about the offense, the family will appear to have been witholding info - - complying with the letter, but not the spirit of the question. I'd tread carefully.</p>
<p>Ohio??
I thought curmmie hailed from Texas!</p>
<p>Could you file paper apps after downloading the Common App so that the info will not be in cyberspace?</p>
<p>This is not legal advice from me either. </p>
<p>Answer the question truthfully. It does NOT matter what "the law" is in your state. The question is whether you have been convicted of a misdemeanor. From what the OP has posted, the answer to that question is yes. If it later comes out that the student has answered no, despite a juvenile record, the school may well expel him. </p>
<p>The fact that your state law seals a juvenile record does NOT mean you can answer no UNLESS--and here I would ask an attorney--you are applying to a public U in the same state. </p>
<p>I agree with the advice to send in a paper application. </p>
<p>A young man I know has a misdemeanor conviction while a juvenile for trespassing and drinking while underage. ( A group of boys from a boarding school bought liquor and went off in the woods to drink it in a group. The land they chose belonged to the neighbor of the school, not the school. The neighbor saw the boys on his land and called the cops. The cops found booze in the boy's back-pack before the party had even gotten started.)</p>
<p>He is now in his mid-20s, having graduated from a top college, which is much praised on this site. He disclosed the offense, as did his boarding school. He also reported it when he applied to law school because, while the record was sealed by then, the way the question was phrased, he had to say yes. He had no trouble getting into law school. </p>
<p>Tell the truth. </p>
<p>If you still want to consult an attorney for genuine legal advice, call an attorney IN THE STATE IN WHICH THE COLLEGE IS LOCATED, not your home state. While I'm not purporting to give legal advice, I think the question of whether the college is entitled to ASK the question is more likely to be governed by the law of the state where the college is located. My hunch is that that state's law would also govern the question of whether the college could expel your son for answering untruthfully. I don't see how a court in, e.g., Ohio, could issue an order requiring a college in e.g.,Virginia to reinstate your son as a student. I think you'd have a much better shot at that if a lawyer admitted to practice in Virginia told you disclosure was unnecessary--at least you'd have a claim for malpractice if he gave you bad advice.</p>