APPLICATIONS GROWTH Class of 2012

Parents Forum
101

<p>My highly unprofessional take on the numbers as presented so far: Harvard's boost is a direct result of the financial aid announcement. NU and UChicago's numbers are the belated, but inevitable, result of people realizing the the city of Chicago has undergone a dramatic revitalization over the last decade or 15 years. (Even Hyde Park is better than it was, but I am referring to the general stature of the Chicago area.)</p>

<p>The rest of the numbers are not dramatic enough to warrant a huge amount of attention. </p>

<p>If Vanderbilt's final increase is over 40%, which is where it stood the third week of December, that would be worth some commentary, but since it is Vanderbilt, it probably won't find that commentary here. (Insert smiley face.)</p>

102

<p>
[quote]
I heard that about 10 years ago, there was only one applicant from Miss.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Smart applicant that year. He or she picked up an opportunity other students in Mississippi missed.</p>

103

<p>
[quote]
result of people realizing the the city of Chicago has undergone a dramatic revitalization over the last decade or 15 years.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Chicago is really an awesome place. I was in a badminton tournament in 2006and a group from the UK said they were impressed by the architecture, the huge size of the downtown, and the general tidiness/cleanliness (as compared to NYC) of the city. It was summer time though. ;)</p>

104

<p>Midmo, since we are offering opinions about the application patterns among highly selective schools, I am afraid that the ups and downs have little to do with the gentrification of the areas around the schools or even in the city. We can see that the impact of reports about crime rates around Cambridge have had little impact on the aspiring Class of 2012. </p>

<p>The unfortunate reality is that a climb of 3-4 places in the USNews rankings, the increased perception of prestige, and the strategic responses to relatively higher admission rates seem to have a much larger impact on the application patterns.</p>

105

<p>
[quote]
I am afraid that the ups and downs have little to do with the gentrification of the areas around the schools or even in the city. We can see that the impact of reports about crime rates around Cambridge have had little impact on the aspiring Class of 2012.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>xiggi, I think the positive impact of a city's improvement (not just gentrification) is far larger than the negative impact of spotty crime on already established academic powerhouses. So, I don't agree that there is a symmetry there. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The unfortunate reality is that a climb of 3-4 places in the USNews rankings, the increased perception of prestige, and the strategic responses to relatively higher admission rates seem to have a much larger impact on the application patterns.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Anecdotal response: about a half-dozen of my son's friends applied to U Chicago last year because they liked the ambiance of the university and because they thought the city of Chicago was really cool. We're just midwesterners here, and the rankings are not yet king. Unfortunately, every one of them went somewhere else that offered more money, either merit scholarships or better financial aid (Ivy's, other top 20 privates). But they applied partly because they liked the city. </p>

<p>I admire your insistence that arguments be fact/statistics based, and your skill at digging out hidden data. The problem is that we don't always have all the data.</p>

106

<p>
[quote]
Chicago is really an awesome place. I was in a badminton tournament in 2006and a group from the UK said they were impressed by the architecture, the huge size of the downtown, and the general tidiness/cleanliness (as compared to NYC) of the city. It was summer time though.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But all of those characteristics are still present in the winter. It is the lake that takes on a different character in the winter. Nonetheless, a prospective student who visited in the winter without appropriate outerwear might come away less than impressed.</p>

107

<p>"The unfortunate reality is that a climb of 3-4 places in the USNews rankings, the increased perception of prestige, and the strategic responses to relatively higher admission rates seem to have a much larger impact on the application patterns."</p>

<p>Yup, and makes them actually less selective as a result, even as admission rates go down.</p>

108

<p>Canada is seeing some growth, too as would be expected from demographics..guess the Common App variable is removed from their growth relative to US schools.</p>

<p>CNW</a> Group | COUNCIL OF ONTARIO UNIVERSITIES | Demand for University Education Continues to Soar as Applications Rise Close to 5%</p>

<p>
[quote]
Applications to Ontario universities for the
fall of 2008 rose 4.8 % over the previous year, continuing a pattern of
year-over-year increases, which have been building for a decade in Ontario,
beginning even before the double cohort of students applied.</p>

<pre><code>"Increased funding from the Ontario government's Reaching Higher plan in
</code></pre>

<p>2005 has made university education more accessible for students," said
Dr. Paul Genest, President of the Council of Ontario Universities. "Demand is
also driven by the increasing recognition that more jobs in the knowledge
economy will require a university education - by some estimates 70 % of jobs
will require a degree in future."</p>

<pre><code>Ontario students are not only driving up university enrolment rates, they
</code></pre>

<p>are also boosting student participation rates as a growing number of them
choose to apply and participate in university education to secure better
career opportunities.</p>

<pre><code>"This is good news for the province, which needs more knowledge workers
</code></pre>

<p>to add value to our future economic growth through innovation and new business
activity," said Genest. "At the same time, it puts pressure for a robust
response. We have to provide faculty to teach these students and places for
them."</p>

<pre><code>He indicated that "universities are collaborating with the provincial
</code></pre>

<p>government to ensure that the education and research provided by our
world-class network of universities is strategic not only to the students but
also to the province as a whole."</p>

<pre><code>There were 83,381 secondary school applicants for the fall of 2008
</code></pre>

<p>compared to 79,568 last year, a 4.8 % rise but a significant addition of 38.6%
since 2001, when there were 60,164 secondary school applicants.</p>

<pre><code>Since students apply to more than one university, total university
</code></pre>

<p>applications reached a total of 368,749 applications, compared to 350,759 in
the previous year, which was a 5.1% increase. The number of applications
exceeded expectations this year as it has in each of the past three years. It
is important to note that the Ontario Universities' Application Centre is
still processing applications.</p>

<pre><code>"The increased demand for university education is encouraging but the
</code></pre>

<p>sector will need help to maintain the quality of the learning experience for
students educated for the knowledge economy," said Genest. "Universities
provide an excellent preparation for the labour market with 92 % of university
graduates employed six months after graduation and 97 % after two years."

[/quote]
</p>

109

<p>Hi, mini, you really ought to show your work rather than wave your hands when claiming that an increase in applicants makes a college "actually less selective as a result."</p>

110

<p>
[quote]


</p>

<p>Yup, and makes them actually less selective as a result, even as admission rates go down.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Haha! Repeat if often enough and might become true! </p>

<p>Mini, as others have pointed out, the zinger does not make much sense without the rest of your argument about selectivity. Like it or not, selectivity within the context of college admissions DOES mean something very specific, be it through the definition used by USNews or other organizations. I believe it would be hard to argue that for most people a lower selectivity remains the opposite of higher selectivity. </p>

<p>I also find that few people will accept the notion that a higher selectivity does not necessarily means that the students who were subject to the higher criteria are better, more qualified, better prepared --or any number of qualification we tend to use. People will also accept that the higher selectivity of a school does not necessarily equate to a better education or a better fit or a better experience. </p>

<p>What difference does it make that, among others, Smith (166/212) or Grinnell (129/158) accept about EVERYONE who applies ED while other schools accept students at single digit rates? If a student or his or her family knows that a school is the best fit and is satisfied with the quality of education --or its perception--why is it important that the school is ranked selective or more selective?</p>

<p>However, that does not mean that "selectivity" is a term that should be used whimsically for the pursuit of a specific agenda. :)</p>

111

<p>"Hi, mini, you really ought to show your work rather than wave your hands when claiming that an increase in applicants makes a college "actually less selective as a result."</p>

<p>If I had time, I'd draw the charts showing the general lack of connection between the percentage of applicants rejected, and yield. And when yield doesn't increase, and the percentage of applicants accepted goes down, the odds that any particular candidate who could benefit most from the specific offerings of that particular college both being accepted and attending -- in other words, being "selected" - go down with it. And, on the whole, the institution finds itself less able to impact that effect (unless, in theory, it increases acceptance rates for those applying ED, but that has other problems attached to it.)</p>

<p>Why do you think HYP have set up new financial aid programs aimed primarily at the top 20% of the income pool? Could it be that, perhaps, their data told them they should have at least a little bit of fear that they might lose a portion of precisely those students they wanted (and could at least pay good portions of the bill?)</p>

112

<p>
[quote]

Didn't Chicago go to the common ap this year? That would explain some of the increase

[/quote]

Nop. Its still uncommon. May be because its the highest ranked school (beside MIT, Caltech, they are more tech oriented kind of school) which dose not run ED or SCEA. So kids who would've apply HP early, now ends up at UofC as one of their earlies. Which explained why they have over 40% increase in EA.</p>

113

<p>ops double posted</p>

114

<p>Troy, N.Y. — More than 11,000 high school students have filed applications to attend Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, according to numbers released today by Rensselaer Admissions. The record number of applications for 2008 is up 10 percent from the previous year, and it is more than double the number received just three years ago in 2005.</p>

115

<p>TheRecord.com</a> - CanadaWorld - UW, WLU are first pick</p>

<p>Waterloo up 15%
Wilfrid Laurier up 11%</p>

<p>some of the growth attributed to new programs...

[quote]
UW and WLU have always enjoyed prominence in Maclean's magazine school rankings, but one of the reasons for this year's giant leap in applications are the new programs starting at the two universities this fall.</p>

<p>UW is introducing 12 new programs. The faculty of environmental studies saw one of the largest increases in applications -- a 62 per cent jump -- after the department announced two new programs.</p>

<p>"There is renewed interest in environmental studies," Weiner said.</p>

<p>Total applications are up by 50 per cent at the mathematics faculty. Some 615 students have applied for the 70 places in financial analysis and risk management, a new program.

[/quote]
</p>

116

<p>Vanderbilt applications rise by 30%.</p>

<p>Competitive</a> Class of ’12 to fit on Commons | InsideVandy</p>

<p>2012 = 16 800
2011 = 12 911</p>

117

<p>Wouldn't you think the Admissions dept and the senior head of housing at Vanderbilt would know there's a big difference between "admitting" 1450 (or 1550) freshmen, as they say, and 1450 or 1550 as the number who actually enroll? It bothers me to read statements like this, where the reader thinks Vanderbilt's admission rate is somewhere under 10%. (mentioned this way three times in the article)</p>

118

<p>2331 - LOL - common mistake.
article on Schreyer (PSU) admissions had the same error. 13% will be admitted (2400 apps, 300 enroll) - stupid mistake. More like 600 or 700 accepted for a 25% acceptance rate. Not sure of the yield. In any case, big difference. I think a student wrote the article though...not the admissions folks.</p>

119

<p>for reminding us that timely and accurate disclosure of facts that will become public knowledge 12-24 months later are ADDING to the stress of prospective students. Indeed, students prefer not knowing, speculating ad nauseam, and looking forward to delayed announcements. </p>

<p>And yes, we also like to be reminded that "for people who are not familiar with the admissions process, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing." and for that mere reason, we should be left to our inability to comprehend five digit numbers and simple percentages.</p>

<p>Well, that is why we like WUSTL policies ... so much!</p>

<p>Tufts</a> Daily - Tufts will not release ED statistic this year</p>

<p>The admissions office will not publicize the number of Early Decision (ED) I applications it received this school year, in a move designed to make the college admissions process less stressful for future applicants, according to Director of Admissions Susan Ardizzoni.</p>

<p>"It's not that we're trying to be secretive or withhold information. We are trying to take a stance against the stress that Early Decision brings about for many prospective students," Ardizzoni said.</p>

<p>In some cases ED, which was created to help high school seniors demonstrate their undivided interest in a school, has evolved into a strategy game for students who believe from statistics that they have a better chance of being accepted if they apply for ED than if they apply for Regular Decision (RD), explained Cass Cliatt, a spokesperson for Princeton University.</p>

<p>Yet although statistics on the Internet seem to indicate that this trend applies to Tufts, Dean of Admissions Lee Coffin maintained that it is just as difficult to get into Tufts through ED as it is through RD.</p>

<p>"The admission staff reads applications in the same manner and employs the same rubrics during each phase of our selection process," he said in an e-mail. "Accordingly, the accepted profile for an ED candidate is the same as an RD applicant. Similarly, the acceptance rate is also the same, so there is no 'advantage' to applying early."</p>

<p>Tufts accepted 304 ED applicants into the Class of 2012, and the applicant pool's size was "comparable" to last year's, Coffin said. But he refused to release the exact number of ED applications received. This was in order to prevent people from compiling percentages, which they could contrast with the analogous percentage of RD applications accepted.</p>

<p>Ardizzoni said that last year, admissions "had a situation where communication went out about Early Decision, and numbers were taken out of context and were not used in an appropriate way ... For people who are not familiar with the admissions process, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.</p>

120

<p>Updated Northwestern Numbers:</p>

<p>NU's website lists a 13.9% increase over last year: Freshman</a> Applications Soar at Northwestern - 54% in Three Years</p>