APPLICATIONS GROWTH Class of 2012

Parents Forum
121

<p>for reminding us that timely and accurate disclosure of facts that will become public knowledge 12-24 months later are ADDING to the stress of prospective students. Indeed, students prefer not knowing, speculating ad nauseam, and looking forward to delayed announcements. </p>

<p>Well, that is why we like WUSTL policies ... so much!</p>

<p>Tufts</a> Daily - Tufts will not release ED statistic this year</p>

<p>The admissions office will not publicize the number of Early Decision (ED) I applications it received this school year, in a move designed to make the college admissions process less stressful for future applicants, according to Director of Admissions Susan Ardizzoni.</p>

<p>"It's not that we're trying to be secretive or withhold information. We are trying to take a stance against the stress that Early Decision brings about for many prospective students," Ardizzoni said.</p>

<p>In some cases ED, which was created to help high school seniors demonstrate their undivided interest in a school, has evolved into a strategy game for students who believe from statistics that they have a better chance of being accepted if they apply for ED than if they apply for Regular Decision (RD), explained Cass Cliatt, a spokesperson for Princeton University.</p>

<p>Yet although statistics on the Internet seem to indicate that this trend applies to Tufts, Dean of Admissions Lee Coffin maintained that it is just as difficult to get into Tufts through ED as it is through RD.</p>

<p>"The admission staff reads applications in the same manner and employs the same rubrics during each phase of our selection process," he said in an e-mail. "Accordingly, the accepted profile for an ED candidate is the same as an RD applicant. Similarly, the acceptance rate is also the same, so there is no 'advantage' to applying early."</p>

<p>Tufts accepted 304 ED applicants into the Class of 2012, and the applicant pool's size was "comparable" to last year's, Coffin said. But he refused to release the exact number of ED applications received. This was in order to prevent people from compiling percentages, which they could contrast with the analogous percentage of RD applications accepted.</p>

<p>Ardizzoni said that last year, admissions "had a situation where communication went out about Early Decision, and numbers were taken out of context and were not used in an appropriate way ... For people who are not familiar with the admissions process, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.</p>

122

<p>PROFILE OF FALL 2006 ADMISSION </p>

<p>Overall Admission Rate 27%
Applied: 15,295<br>
Admitted: 4,096
Enrolled 1,285 </p>

<p>Early Decision: 32%
Applied: 1321</p>

123

<p>


</p>

<p>You may not be trying, but you're succeeding at being secretive and withholding information.</p>

124

<p>2331: The article about Vanderbilt's rise in application numbers is from the student new service, Inside Vandy. They interviewed admissions people, but wrote the article themselves. If you have read any amount of student journalism, you will know that mistakes that seem "stupid" to you are very common.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, I'm not sure why we had to wait around to get the numbers from the student press. Admissions has a blog, and VU has other ways to disseminate its news directly.</p>

125

<p>Vanderbilt: if you don't want to read the student version, here is the non-student written press release:</p>

<p>Vanderbilt</a> News Service</p>

<p>This article mentions large increases in applications from various under-represented groups, although those increases are not quite as large as the overall increase of 30%. </p>

<p>As for ED information: very little in this press release.</p>

126

<p>This entire thread is just so depressing. I think that the only purpose all this competition will serve is to make really smart kids give up and not strive as much any more. I worry for my kid who has worked so hard and has achieved so much. I know you all will say that there are a lot of good places to go. However, this situation has not only created a generation of workaholics but will also result in a generation of cynics.</p>

127

<p>I'm not sure I follow the discussions regarding Vandy's lack of announcement. </p>

<p>I had no problems finding the information and reported it on CC a long time ago. In fact, I found the blogs I reported in post 55 in this thread (<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/447625-applications-growth-class-2012-harvard-princeton-etc-2.html#post5247884%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/447625-applications-growth-class-2012-harvard-princeton-etc-2.html#post5247884&lt;/a&gt;) rather interesting.</p>

128

<p>
[quote]
However, this situation has not only created a generation of workaholics but will also result in a generation of cynics.

[/quote]
Thats an interesting and scary thought. I am blown away by some of the numbers I am seeing here. Xig- to what do you attribute it? Easier to do common apps? Greater competition? Change in the ED/EA structure of some schools? All of the above??</p>

129

<p>
[quote]
...this situation has not only created a generation of workaholics but will also result in a generation of cynics.

[/quote]
As overwhelming as the odds against admission are today, they are nowhere near what they were a few generations ago for an inner city black kid, or a blue collar immigrant kid, or an Idaho farm kid....I don't see why it should create a generation of cynics.</p>

<p>The realization that elite schools are possible for anyone had resulted in thousands of kids like yours working hard and achieving great things. Add to that the unlucky demographics of the baby boomlet. It's no different than coming out of college in a bad recession year, or suddenly finding your major has instantly become obsolete by new technology, which has happened to many graduates in the past.</p>

130

<p>Jym, all the above is probably the best answer. The only answer that might be better is all the above plus other factors. </p>

<p>For starters, in theory the elimination of ED/EA at Princeton and Harvard should result in applications being up at both schools, as many students apply to both --or, in certain circles ... to all Ivies as a matter of routine. </p>

<p>Obviously, a difference should be made between volume of applications and number of unique applicants. As we know, for the past years, there has been an increase in students applying to more schools in an attempt to mitigate the lower admission rates. Of course, in turn, this creates even lower admit rates at the very top of the highly selective schools. </p>

<p>Last but not least, one needs to recognize that many schools --and even the most selective-- are increasing their efforts to expand the recruiting in under-represented areas in the US and abroad. Aggressive collaboration with organizations such as Posse, Questbridge, and the changes in financial aid policies are all pointing to continuing increases in the number of applicants.</p>

131

<p>obsessed mom -- It is our job to teach our kids that their self-worth, future achievements, and overall contributions to the world do not hinge on their admission to any particular school. Anything less is giving into cynicism, in my book.</p>

132

<p>The week I graduated from architecture school one of the major firms in NYC laid off 300 people. Fun. But the fact is, that there are plenty of places in colleges for everyone. It's not the end of the world that the Ivy League was easier for me to get into that it is for my kids. I think a lot of this is a bit of an illusion. Kids are applying to more colleges so the colleges all end up looking more selective, but in the end each kid can only choose one college.</p>

133

<p>Good points xig. I was thinking about programs like Questbridge and Posse and the opportunities they present, but I don't think that explains the asymptotic rise in some of the application numbers and percents at some schools, nor does just the higher number of kids in the HS class of 2008 explain it. Put all these factors together, along with Bush's push to increase opportunities for international students, greater marketing by some colleges and universities, and more scholarship (rather than loan) money, and many more kids see the opportunity to attend college as viable.</p>

<p>Maybe "cynical" isn't quite the right word, obsessedmom, but I get where you are coming from. Certainly many of these middle or upper class kids may be, at the very least, disillusioned. IMO, far, far too many kids are applying to 10, 12, 15 or more schools, especially when sometimes it seems like they are just throwing them at the wall to see what sticks. </p>

<p>SS, I am thrilled to see that the poor immigrant kids, kids from the slums, cornfields, the hood, the barrio, what have you, now see and have the opportunity to get a college degree. I am not so sure the "overwhelming odds were against them" so much as they didn't see it as an option in their lives in the past, and probably didn't apply. Perhaps this is just semantics, but I see it as different than, say, the quotas that were put on Jewish applicants to the Ivies a generation ago. (There was a great show on PBS about this just a few days ago). Any minority who faced a quota or was somehow discriminated against during the admissions process has, IMO, the right to feel "cynical". Doors were closed for them, not opened. I am not trying to compare today's tougher admissions for the non-URM's as like the discriminatory practices of yesteryear. But what I am trying to say is that when very bright, hard-working, qualified students face rejection after rejection, especially when they have grown up believing that hard work usually pays off, they can be, at the very least, disillusioned with this process.</p>

<p>There are a couple of things to look at with these new rising application numbers. The percent rise in applications can look larger in a small school, when in reality the actual number of applications isn't that much higher (don't ya just love statistics?), but I am still coming up for air over the numbers from College of Charleston and Vandy. I suspect we'll see more schools with high double digit increases in applications when all the final numbers are in.</p>

134

<p>
[quote]
It is our job to teach our kids that their self-worth, future achievements, and overall contributions to the world do not hinge on their admission to any particular school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I stirred up quite a lot of controversy when I said that in an earlier thread. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/437718-admission-favorite-college-unworthy-goal-students.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/437718-admission-favorite-college-unworthy-goal-students.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

135

<p>^^^^^ Well, we all know you are a troublemaker, tokenadult! :D</p>

136

<p>
[quote]

obsessed mom -- It is our job to teach our kids that their self-worth, future achievements, and overall contributions to the world do not hinge on their admission to any particular school. Anything less is giving into cynicism, in my book.

[/quote]

The thing is we started our job as far ago as a decade before. Then things and policies changed when our kids got to the age of college admission. </p>

<p>Really IMO its lack of transparency and certain critirials to follow in these ivies and top ranked schools in admission process that caused this generation of applicants who without any 'hooks' shooting elite colleges like playing lottory.</p>

<p>I know general public has no 'rights' to comments on these private school's policy what type of students they would like to admit (because its their rights to want to build a diversity of community). Yet the whole 'critirial' just looks so arbitrate. The data/stats they released to the general public is really misleading. Since by now general public do know and acknowlege the fact that there is slacks cut for 'legacies', 'celebrities', 'athletes', 'URMs', etc. hooks in admission process. So to make the life easy for both adcom and applicants. It would be nice for these colleges to releas that the % slots they reserved for legacie and celebrities and minimumn requirements gose with these slots; the % slots reserved for athletes and the minimum requirements go with the slot; the % slots reserved for URMs and the minimumn requirements go with the slots; the rmainning slots available for the general public (students without any hook) and the minimum requirement go with them.....If they do this, there is a lot money and effort can be saved by both sides.</p>

137

<p>another njmom-
Your idea sounds like the experience many people have when the go to buy concert tickets that are supposed to be available on Ticketmaster, or- better example--college football tickets. How many are "really" available to the "general public" or even the current students after the set asides for the big donors, the other alums, players families, etc.</p>

138

<p>Is there any way to know how many individual students are applying to colleges--all colleges in the United States--in a given year? Rather than how many applications are received by each specific college? I would like to know if the number of college applicants is going up along with the number of college applications.</p>

139

<p>Projections</a> of Education Statistics to 2016 - Section 2. Enrollment in Degree-Granting Institutions: Total Enrollment</p>

140

<p>Okay, but is there anywhere to see fairly exact year-to-year numbers? Aren't the numbers supposed to start going down as the baby boomers' "baby bump" finishes up?</p>