Applications to Law School Up

Graduate School Law School
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<p>The following are some exerpts from an article in today's Wall Street Journal:</p>

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Best Defense? Seeking a Haven in Law School Article</p>

<p>By NATHAN KOPPEL

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The job market for lawyers, hit hard by the recession, seems to reach new lows every day. But that has not done much to discourage the thousands who are lining up to become the next generation of attorneys.</p>

<p>In seeming defiance of logic, many law schools are surging in popularity. At Washington and Lee University in Virginia, for example, law-school applications are up 29% this year over 2008, while Yale Law School and the University of Texas School of Law both enjoyed an 8% increase in applications. Nationwide, the total number of applicants is up by 2% over last year, with the deadline to submit applications having passed at most schools.</p>

<p>College graduates, educators say, are seeking refuge from the economy in the relative tranquility of higher education, hoping that the job market will improve by the time they graduate. Law schools also have been aided by the long-held belief that the legal business is relatively immune from recessions.

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In the past, the legal profession has been relatively immune to economic downturns. When times are bad, after all, companies still need lawyers for such tasks as bankruptcy filings.</p>

<p>But the legal industry now is feeling the pain every bit as much as the rest of the economy. Some legal specialties, to be sure, remain relatively robust, including bankruptcy and litigation, but those practices have not made up for substantial declines in mergers, corporate finance and other staples of the business. Firms across the country are firing lawyers by the hundreds, slashing salaries and even rescinding job offers to law-school graduates. Last month, Latham & Watkins, a marquee firm with large New York and Los Angeles offices, laid off 190 lawyers.</p>

<p>In short, it is the worst job market in modern memory at large corporate law firms, which have long been the employers of choice for top graduates.</p>

<p>Public-sector law jobs also are harder to come by these days, according to James Leipold, executive director of the National Association for Law Placement, a Washington-based nonprofit that researches the legal job market. The Philadelphia District Attorney's office, for example, recently rescinded about a dozen job offers to law-school graduates due to start in the fall.

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Some large corporate firms may never rebound to their prior size, due partly to contraction in the investment-banking industry and the fact that corporate clients increasingly are fed up by the lofty legal rates charged by elite law firms, says Mr. Henderson, who specializes in the economics of the legal profession.</p>

<p>"There are very few schools that can guarantee students that they'll find a high-paying corporate job," he says. Those considering law school who don't consider law a calling, he adds, need to ask: "Is it really worth going $120,000 or $140,000 more into debt?"

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Still, law school may be a place to hide out. In light of the economy, "there are a lot of people who have decided they will not test the job market as a graduating senior from college," says Richard Geiger, the associate dean of enrollment at Cornell University Law School, where applications are up 8%. Graduate-school applications typically shoot up during a recession.

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School administrators seize on the versatility of a law degree in asserting that it is still a sound investment. Lawyers, they say, will play a central role in navigating a variety of issues, such as the use of natural resources, cross-border trade and government stimulus spending, which likely will play a central role in the economy for years to come.</p>

<p>"As compared to other graduate programs, [law school] is more analytically rigorous and touches more areas of society," says Paul Berman, dean of Arizona State University's Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law, where applications this year are down.</p>

<p>But even those bullish on law school stress that students should take steps to ensure that their investment pays off. For starters, students should aim to get into an elite law school. (There are many lists ranking law schools; the best-known is U.S. News & World Report's, which can be found at grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law.) In a buyer's market for jobs, lawyers note, employers can afford to be choosy and hire only the most pedigreed applicants.

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<p>I came across this item from "legal writing prof blog"-</p>

<p>"...LSAC indicating that while law school applications are up an average of 4% nationwide, the number of applicants has remained flat meaning that people are applying to more law schools likely hoping to be able to "trade-up" if the opportunity is there." </p>

<p>some T-14 administrators speculated that the increase in applications is due to the fact that it may be harder to obtain student loans. </p>

<p>That seems reasonable, as the # of schools you apply to may increase your chances of receiving not only an acceptance but a scholarship/merit award (??)</p>

<p>I have a feeling alot of waitlisted kids will be getting acceptances in may and june after deposits are due.</p>

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<p>Actually, new information from NALP shows that there are actually more applicants to law school this year than last. As of mid-March 2009, applications are up 5.5% from 2008, and applicants are up 3.0% from 2008.</p>

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<p>sally- it very well may be. Though it's far from the best indicator- LSN is still showing a heck of alot of kids still waitlisted or pending. These kids with solid T-14 stats (or what I used to think were solid stats-168/3.6 or thereabouts) have not yet been admitted to many T-14 schools.
It will be interesting to see what happens after deposits are sent in.</p>

<p>but to you young ones still in college- be very mindful of your GPA. A high GPA really seems to make a difference regarding law school admittance, especially if your LSAT falls in the 166 to 170 category.</p>

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<p>The info being reported by law students on another very active Chat Board for 'top law schools,' is that applicants are being told by Admissions offices that while applications are up, the actual number of applicants appears to be stable this year. It was opined that applicants are filing more applications this year to get financial aid offers. The posters on that other chat board are reporting that Admissions Offices have told them that they expect their yield numbers to fall this year as a result. This is consistent with the blog mentioned by Marny above!</p>

<p>This is, of course, hearsay upon hearsay.</p>

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<p>UVA Law School Applications Up 20 Percent</p>

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<p>Applications to the Law School shot up by more than 20 percent this year, a massive increase that far outpaces national averages, according to data from the Admissions Office.</p>

<p>“I thought there would be an increase, given the state of the economy. But the magnitude of the increase this year cannot be solely explained by that, especially since a number of our peers are reporting increases less than ours,” said Jason Wu Trujillo ’01, senior assistant dean for admissions and financial aid.</p>

<p>So far this year, there have been 7,870 applications to the Law School, up from 6,548 last year. Those students are competing for around 350 spots in the Class of 2012.</p>

<p>The applications are also coming from a more qualified group of students, Trujillo said. The Admissions Office has accepted 14.6 percent of applicants so far this year, compared to 19.7 percent last year.</p>

<p>“This is going to be the most competitive year to get in on record. I wouldn’t let myself in at this point,” Trujillo said. </p>

<p>Nearly all of the growth in applications comes from an increase in out-of-state applicants, making it extremely difficult for those students to secure an offer, Trujillo said.</p>

<p>UVA</a> Law School Applications Up 20 Percent</p>

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<p>From reading some of the other discussion boards, UVA has waitlisted a slew of students.</p>

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<p>The fact that UVA over-enrolled last year is also contributing to the seemingly excessive waitlisting.</p>

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<p>I was surprised that my kid was waitlisted at six schools instead of outright rejections (two that were far reaches). Perhaps the schools are worried about their yield when accepted students actually apply for $30K+ in loans for law school in this credit market.</p>

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<p>i think the economy is definitely affecting the admission cycle. Topics on TLS/LSD show more of an awareness and discussions about taking on debt, accepting scholarship $ at "lower rated" schools, and the job market for new attorneys.</p>

<p>My guess is that my kid will probably put in 2 or 3 applications to schools where she hopes to get some decent scholarship offers. I can't project what her final outcome would be. But I guess it is best to have as many good options as possible- and that may be a reason that kids do seem to be applying to more schools than they might have in the past.
Can't even fathom what will happen if these kids are not able to secure loans for law school. I guess we'll all know within the next few months.
Neo- good luck to your son.
Sybbie- looks like my d will be applying next cycle. You too?<br>
knowing my d, once she starts the application process, I'm not going to be getting too much info from her-</p>

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<p>application to NU law school are up 18% from last year. This may correlate to the public interest part of the article</p>

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<p>neo- your comment about kid being waitlisted at 6 schools with 2 being far reaches, led to an interesting conversation this past week-end, and the same idea was mentioned on Morning Joe this AM.
hubby and I were discussing whether the high amount of kids being waitlisted, is a way for law schools to have a ready supply of kids from higher income households to choose
from in the event kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds can't get the loans and have to forego the opportunity to start law school this fall. Therefore- there are alot of waitlisted kids this year.
I think there is sufficient household income info given through the application process, fafsa and need access- that law schools can figure out which students have the means to afford law school in the event they cannot get loans.
Hubby and I became a bit unnerved talking like this, as it was giving credence that we could easily go back to being an elitist society again. (though it can be argued we were always an elitist society) as those that come from wealth can afford the elite colleges, law schools etc.
Just this AM on the Morning Joe show- the same concept was mentioned re: UG admissions. Apparently there is an article that colleges were looking at family income and making some admission desicions based on the families ability to pay full tuition.
so if you could afford to pay full freight, the doors were open to you--<br>
Hence- the large waitlists to fill open slots for kids with money.
just something to think about.</p>

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<p>Marny1 - I suspect you are absolutely correct. If I could advise my kid to do anything differently, I might suggest that he NOT mention having a parent who is a lawyer. This wasn't a theme of the Personal Statement, but my kid thought it might be valuable to explain that he actually had some understanding about what he was getting into. </p>

<p>I don't know this for sure, of course, but kid's few scholarship offers were much lower than others with the same numbers who reported scholarship offers on that other web site. On the other hand, kid was waitlisted at far reach schools that are very expensive, so perhaps those schools took note of it in a positive way.</p>

<p>Maybe kid should have inserted a footnote with the caveat that "my lawyer-parent is poor and can not contribute to my legal education." </p>

<p>I'm going to offer to sell everything in Kid's room on Ebay, to help him pay tuition. Geez. My law school tuition at a private law school in a major city was about $5,000 a semester....in a galaxy far, far away...</p>

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colleges were looking at family income and making some admission desicions based on the families ability to pay full tuition. so if you could afford to pay full freight, the doors were open to you

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<p>Marny, with the exception of a very few "need-blind" schools, I was under the impression this was always the case.</p>

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<p>mike- the difference this year MAY be that some kids are not able to get the loans. And without the loans, there is no way they will be able to afford to go to law school. So when first payments are due, there really may be alot of kids who can't register. There are always going to be a bunch of kids who on paper will be taking out loans and will be responsible for their costs, but they may have a grandma, grandpa, and parents who can in a pinch foot the bill. Those are the kids who may be targeted for admittance.<br>
It's not difficult for admisssion offices to figure out who has money and who doesn't.<br>
Many people know there's a big difference between those kids coming from the Bronx and those from Bronxville (i think that's a ritzy suburb in westchester county).</p>

<p>coincidentally- there was a front page article in the NY times today, just on this topic- but it pertained to UG admission.
and yes- schools do check the zip codes where you reside. Anyone more computer savvy than me- (which is just about everyone)- the article was front page NY times today 3/31 so if anyone wants to link it up--</p>

<p>neo- i'm thinking the opposite- if schools think we can foot the bill, d may get some unanticipated acceptances. It's going to be an interesting year.</p>

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<p>Hm, so a greater emphasis on ability to pay. I can imagine that that could be necessary for some schools in this environment.</p>

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<p>Most students in law school who are not eligible for need based aid will be able to get GradPlus loans.</p>

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<p>thanks sybbie-
so these student loans aren’t affected by the credit crunch?? That is good to know. Can I assume that these type of loans would be eligible for “Loan Forgiveness for Public Service”?<br>
I am just at the stage where I"m gathering the info for future reference. The info you have provided on this site about student loans and student loan forgiveness law has been very interesting and will hopefully better prepare us for the admission process next year.</p>