Asking for my D17. She’s always been strong in math and science but never really considered a path in engineering until pretty late in this last school year when she got some encouragement from a couple of her teachers and GC to take a look at it. Well, now that she’s investigated more, she’s thinking she may want to pursue ChemE.
My question is, considering that she never even thought about going into engineering until late in her junior year, she doesn’t have any ECs that are geared around it. None of the usual stuff that I see kids with - robotics clubs and engineering summer programs, etc. By the time she recognized that she was interested, it was too late to apply to the summer programs (except the $$$$ pay to play ones which are just not in the cards). Is that a big deal? Most of her ECs have been art and dance related, plus a fair bit of community service at our local youth organization. She’s got the academic background they ask for - 4.0 UW average, AP Chem this year, AP Physics 1 and AP Calc AB next year, 33 ACT (hoping June score will be even a little higher, waiting on subject test scores too) but will the lack of long term interest in engineering hurt her? How do you present a late blooming interest?
2 years ago, I was chatting with a high school cashier who was checking us out at Wegmans. She has just been accepted to Bucknell and Notre Dame, with a generous scholarship at Bucknell. I asked her major and she said she was planning on majoring in engineering. She said she took a lot of math and science in high school but none of the tech/engineering classes and no science or math clubs.
I have no idea what her stats were, that would have been rude to ask and she didn’t offer, but not having ECs related to engineering didn’t hurt her. She was trying engineering to see if she liked it because she knew it’s harder to change to engineering than from engineering once you start classes.
Additionally, I don’t think state schools even care about ECs.
My feeling is that there are a limited number of tippy top schools (top 25) where the lack of engineering ECs may be an issue. My son was similar, no engineering ECs, but got into some very good engineering programs (top 40 school).
Apply to a variety of schools to ensure getting in the engineering department at one and she should be fine. Know that the acceptance rate for the college of engineering is often half that of the rest of the school.
You don’t need a tippy top school for engineering. ABET accreditation is the most important thing. Employers will be most concerned with college grades and internships.
Thanks, all. That’s reassuring to hear. Sometimes it seems like kids are tracked so heavily from such an early age…
@mom2twogirls The easier to switch out later than to switch in was definitely a factor once D started thinking about this. She will look for schools that have other programs she likes besides engineering, but better to go in that way to start building that foundation (even if she doesn’t stay in engineering, the likely areas she’d be looking at would be some flavor of math or physical science anyway, so it’s not like it would be a waste!)
@MaineLonghorn Good to hear from someone who has been there! Yeah, she’s gotten some really nice encouragement from her AP Chem and precalc (who will also be her calculus) teacher, and that seems to have given her the confidence to recognize her talents in those areas in a more serious way. We will definitely look for ABET accredited programs, thank you!
@youcee Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, she will apply to a variety of programs - I know the competition can be extra tough in engineering programs because it’s such a high demand area of study. Being a girl might be a help in some places, but the lack of ECs probably outweighs any advantage so we’re back at square one! It is good to hear that your son got into some good programs without any specific ECs though.
There’s no expectation of EC’s geared towards an intended major. Heck, one could even argue that the whole point of ECs is to show diversity of interests-- that you’re not just a one dimensional person.
@mom2collegekids Thanks. The SUNYs are financial and admissions safeties for us, and RIT with merit would be a good deal too (the merit is not guaranteed, but seems fairly likely with D’s stats.)
Our ultimate budget has some flex in it. We could go full pay if someplace seemed like an incredible opportunity, but certainly wouldn’t mind paying less if possible. We’re small business owners, so I know the NPCs can be wonky, but I don’t imagine we’d get much (if any) need based grants except at the most generous schools.
Still working up the match and reach lists. She toured and liked Smith - they don’t offer ChemE in particular, but do have general engineering. She’s curious about Tufts. I guess we will find out if she improved ACT when scores come in next week, and wait on subject test results in July before thinking too much about big reaches. Smith has possible merit, Tufts does not. She’d prefer to stay in Northeast/Mid-Atlantic for proximity to family. Ah, and she doesn’t want a school with big Greek life.
We are in the same boat with our D just developing an interest in engineering during junior year, she never had an interest in math club, robotics club, or anything like that although she has been in schools that had them since elementary. It is concerning when you hear about kids on cc doing Intel, science fair, USAMO, science bowl, publication level research, programming in 10 languages, developing apps, etc., etc. We have to remember that the cc population is way above average.
@nw2this It does seem a little daunting, doesn’t it. But you’re right, it is easy to lose track of how self selecting and high achieving the cc population is. On the one hand, it’s good to see what blockbuster kids look like in terms of knowing who is out there in this big country of ours and who is actually getting into those tippy top programs (not that my D is particularly interested in them). But on the other hand, I don’t want the comparisons to lead me into inadvertently “discounting” my D’s achievements either.
And yes, Temple needs to go on our list to check out too. What other places have you been looking at for your D?
Look at Clarkson University. Also, maybe look at some in Ohio, it’s not really that far from NY (although that may depend on which part of NY). Case Western could be close enough. Travel by train there could be fun and reasonable for her.
Also, University of Rochester but if you were thinking of RIT and didn’t mention it, I was thinking maybe you had already ruled it out for some reason.
The first year engineering classes can be brutal, you might want to check out the GPA requirement for merit scholarship. Python can be tough on GPAs!
Any possibility for job shadowing? I tried that with D on Actuarial, she doesn’t like it! Lehigh university is a solid engineering school with merit, though I believe the gradings are tough! D will be there for summer engineering program and we are hoping that she can have an idea which branch of engineering she wants to do after the camp. Both DH and I are engineers.
@mom2twogirls Ok, will have a look at Clarkson. Have thought about Case, but it might be a little far away - will investigate further though, thanks. I guess we will look at URochester too - we know RIT because Ds friend will be going there next year for Materials. We’re just not as familiar with URochester. I’m sure if we plan a visit to the area, we will hit both.
@SincererLove Thanks. Yes, we are aware that engineering has a tough curriculum. She’d likely be going into regular chemistry if not ChemE, so she’s prepared for rigorous material. It has been her science and math teachers who suggested she look into engineering, so they seem to think she’s capable. I’m not sure about job shadowing - we live in a fairly rural area, I don’t think there’s anything in the vicinity. I hope your D enjoys her summer program! My D’s hesitation about Lehigh is the prevalence of Greek life (same with Bucknell and Union.) We certainly haven’t ruled anything out, though.
Even with a dad who is was an engineering professor, I didn’t even think of engineering as a career until I was in the 11th grade! Dad made a joke at a party for students about my being the next engineer in the family, and that’s when the lightbulb went off - “Wow, I like math, and that sounds like a great idea!” I’d even done a couple of science fair projects involving structural engineering, but connecting that to a possible career hadn’t clicked with me before.
D got into the following with merit for mechanical engineering with a 4.0 uw, similar class rigor, no engineering ECs, 32 ACT, no subject tests:
Temple
Stevens
U of Rochester
Union
U of New Hampshire
Outside of Northeast/Mid-Atlantic:
Case Western
CO School of Mines
She choose Northeastern, the only school that didn’t offer merit (ugh), but we qualified for financial aid that made it doable. She is so excited to live in Boston and participate in their co-op program. She also saw limited Greek like as a plus.
You don’t need a tippy top school in engineering but you’d be amazed by the opportunities that are provided to those in engineering at such schools. Yes, opportunities can be anywhere but they are more reliably available to those at the very top schools then they are available to those that are at ABET accredited that are not known as top schools. Yes you can probably get a good job with a degree from any ABET accredited school but that does not mean that ABET accreditation is an equalizer.
Imagine for example, a school where students in a seminar are given the opportunity to fly to England to meet with innovative start ups or where they are invited to spend a month working on the next big whatever in a tech company in Germany-on the school’s dime and/or for generous stipend. And where Microsoft, Google and Facebook compete to attract 1st or 2nd year students for summer internships where they pay them 40k for the summer. Now imagine it isn’t just the top few students who have those opportunities but where nearly all students have to carefully narrow in on their choices of opportunities because they are too plentiful and because there is also so much going on at the university that leaving it (summer or short term) for one of these amazing opportunities can risk losing out on equally amazing opportunities at the school or in one of the local tech companies in town. Imagine a school where there is a parade of the people in the forefront of engineering and technology coming to talk with various student groups or to classes or in more formal venues. Now imagine this is nonstop all year rather than a couple of times or a couple of scholars a year. Imagine a place where students often use their brief breaks to collaborate on their own products, meet with people in the forefront of their field or extend a class project into a potentially profitable app or to participate in a hackathon. The top engineering schools are infused with energy and enthusiasm for creativity and innovation at a level not apparent in other schools. That isn’t to say it can’t be found elsewhere. But, to imply that there is nothing different about the top schools than any ABET accredited school would be a mistake.
I don’t think lack of ECs in engineering is an issue for the top engineering schools. Oddly, it is probably a bigger sticking point for middling schools. Top schools tend to be more focused on aptitude and on demonstrating achievement more broadly speaking and on fit (an intellectual focus, goals to improve the world in various ways with some background that is supportive to that goal), etc. They are not looking for a general collection of engineering focused ECs as might be the case for middling schools, I would expect evidence of strong aptitude along with other characteristics are far more important than showing a long history of engineering related ECs.
Given the academic strength of the OP’s daughter, I hope she applies to some of the tippy top schools. Not all the students at these schools participated in engineering related ECs throughout their childhood. I would guess a commonality would be that whatever they did reflected unusually strong focus, commitment, and motivation and the academic record for most probably reflects strong aptitude. I know some students at these schools who knew very little about engineering until they started college but their histories suggested that they were a good fit for reasons beyond interest in engineering.
“Tippy top” can mean schools like UT-Austin, by the way. It’s one of the top-ranked civil engineering schools in the country. It does well in other disciplines, also, but I’m not as familiar with them. There’s lots of research opportunities, and the profs are excellent. And yes, they care about teaching as much as they do research. That’s why my dad stayed active in the department until he was 79. It wasn’t the research he stayed for, it was the students.
