<p>Interested in any parents opinions/experience. I have seen this year a lot of top kids get rejected by all the Ivys. My son has a good application but weaker extracurriculars. Perfect GPA with the usual APs (but in science only) (from a top 10 public HS in the state) and a 35 on ACT and three 800's on subject tests. But not the "Ivy level" extracurriculars--just some clubs and volunteer work and sports team--no student body president, no varsity sports, etc.</p>
<p>Is it really worth applying to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford etc? (the usual reply is "take a chance you never know" but the kids I saw this year getting in were the student body presidents etc--others got rejected or only got into a "baby Ivy")</p>
<p>Nobody here has a crystal ball. I would be more concerned about making sure he applies to some matches and safeties rather than just the “top schools”, which are a crapshoot for just about anyone these days. That being said, the only things your son has to lose are the application fees and some pride.
And what the heck is a “baby Ivy”?</p>
<p>I have a high stats/relatively low EC son who just graduated from a very good public HS. He is thrilled where he is going next year but it is not HYPSM level (he did not get in to his top choice, which was one of those). He had a slew of acceptances to the next tier (Fordham, UCSD et al).<br>
At his HS honors ceremony, it seemed pretty darn clear why the few that got into the top schools had been accepted. They not only had perfect grades, they also had some AMAZING ECs. National awards in science or debate, volunteer awards, top athletes, and more. National Merit Scholar was practically a given. The school where the honorees were going was part of the written program, so we all knew who had been accepted where. I could really see why the kid who got into Harvard got in, ditto the Williams kid, the Yale girl, and a few others. My son, although a very BWRK, was not in their league when it came to ECs. He did get in to Univ. of Chicago, so there is always a chance at the higher ranked schools (he chose not to go there). I guess what I am saying is it doesn’t hurt to apply, but don’t get his hopes up. The mantra around here about loving thy safety really was great advice for us!</p>
<p>What makes them “top schools” for your son? Are they good fits? Do they provide the academics that he is looking for? Would he do better with more individual attention at a LAC? Is study abroad and languages a high priority? Does he want an environment where there is a lot of sports, some, or almost none at all? Greek? </p>
<p>I don’t see any reason why he should apply to any school unless there is something particular about the place that attracts him.</p>
<p>and to reply to WordWorld–that is what I saw also from this years grads at the HS–the Harvard kids, etc had all these relatively amazing extracurricular activities. Thus my question–what about a high scoring child with average ECs?</p>
<p>All the Ivies, including the top ones, take some kids like the OP’s son. So there’s no reason he shouldn’t apply to them if he’s interested, as long as he has an overall list that includes sensible matches and safeties. </p>
<p>What state is this? That makes a difference too.</p>
<p>Not every student at HYPSMC is an Intel finalist, published novelist etc. It’s often hard from the outside to figure out what the difference is. But I’d say from our school at least all the HYPMC kids at least had at least one real accomplishment - state level medals at Science Olympiad, concertmaster of the school orchestra, significant science research, real work experience in computer programming, president of student council… But the minute you come down from those schools with single digit acceptance rates (Cornell, Dartmouth, Tufts, U of Chicago (at least 2 years ago)) the expectations are much more reasonable. Lots of bright well rounded kids do just fine especially if they can convince an admissions officer that they have potential. In my younger son’s case I think it helped that he played up some of his activities outside of school. They weren’t things that took up huge amounts of time, but they weren’t quite run of the mill either. He wrote good essays about them - one on a small business making origami earrings the other about what he learned from helping create an archive of neighborhood association papers. He got into Tufts, Vassar and U of Chicago - all schools that are known for somewhat more holistic unpredictable admissions results.</p>
<p>Are your chances good? Well at the schools with single digit acceptance rates, no, but they aren’t good for anyone, but you can’t get in if you don’t apply. Luckily there are hundreds of great schools for top students, so you can apply to a few top schools (assuming you like them) and as long as you won’t be horribly disappointed by being turned down, there is no great harm done.</p>
<p>One (and only one) of my son’s classmates was accepted to Harvard and Stanford. His grades, test scores, and class rank were indistinguishable from those of several other students who were rejected by one or both of those colleges, and I think it’s safe to say that his ECs were not as impressive as those of any of his rivals. What he had going for him was that everyone with any significant exposure to him – his classmates and the faculty – knew that he was the most brilliant student in the class, far more than some of those with higher class ranks. He is not likely ever to be more than an intellectual leader, but he will be an intellectual leader.</p>
<p>Harvard and Stanford (and others) take other sorts of kids, too, including plenty who are smart enough, but are more likely to be CEOs, sports leaders, artists, or political leaders than intellectual leaders. They take kids who are the absolute best at something specific, and pretty good at everything else. What they don’t do is take kids solely on the basis of their test scores, GPAs, and ECs. All of those are imperfect signs of qualities the colleges are looking for.</p>
<p>So, to the OP: If your son really does have some of the leadership/brilliance qualities the tippy-top colleges are looking for, and he wants to go there, by all means he should apply, and he should give a great deal of thought to how he will make certain his application gives the best picture of who he is. His less-than-inspiring ECs won’t keep him out. If, being honest with himself, he’s a BWRK who does well in school, but he’s not the very best at something among everyone he knows, then his chances of admission are pretty slim, and if he decides not to bother he won’t be giving up much.</p>
Or he may be from a state with fewer applicants. Or he may be interested in a field of study that attracts fewer people. If you look at the results threads here on CC for the top schools, you will note quite a few kids who are accepted who don’t have mind-bending achievements apart from really good grades and scores. Of course, you will also see lots of kids like that who don’t get in.</p>
<p>OK, but you may have a hook of that kind that even you don’t know about, so don’t let that hold you back from applying to highly selective schools if you have the grades and scores to make them plausible.</p>
<p>Ditto what everyone is saying. With acceptance rates in the single digits the top schools are a serious reach for almost everyone. Doesnt mean one shouldn’t apply. Just that one should be realistic, and hopefully stand out in some way that makes them stand up and take note.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the crapshoot aspect of it all makes it more likely for me to let ds2 apply for an Ivy. His scores certainly are good enough, so maybe next year they’ll be buying what he’s selling, so why not try, kwim?</p>
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