<p>I’m not sure many kids thinking about the league as interchangeable parts. Those colleges are so very different. Up until a week ago I thought Cornell was a public uni…so I guess if I had a student who wanted to apply to the Ivy League colleges, I’d tell them to apply to the ones that they liked the best. My third is debating whether to take a shot at Dartmouth (he’s got the stats more or less) but that’s the only one out of the league he “likes” and could see himself as part of the culture. The decision will be entirely up to him whether or not he competes and pushes send on the app. </p>
<p>Funny, I’ve never heard the term “baby Ivy” either…I was guessing it was short hand for the LACs in the northeast like Amherst, Middlebury, Colby, Williams, etc. baby = diminutive to indicate the smaller size of these colleges. Back in the early seventies when my peers were heading off they did head off to Colby, Middlebury, Amhurst…but not so much Tufts. I think Tuft’s popularity came along in the eighties. Ivy league = old and I don’t think of Tufts as “old” even though it is an old uni. Tufts = Wash U in my mind…newish more than oldish.</p>
<p>One more voice agreeing with all of the above.</p>
<p>Of the kids recently admitted to Ivies from our area high schools, they all were top, top kids plus-something-outstanding, except for one or two merely top kids plus-something- amazingly-outstanding. Nationally ranked athlete, name on published research with a clearly URM last name, kid who is extremely concentrated on one particular area of interest, couple of kids of famous parents. </p>
<p>All of them have been excellent students, with something extra to offer. </p>
<p>None of them are kids you would ever look at and think, “Gee, I wonder why they got admitted?” </p>
<p>At the “top, but not Ivy” level, the results are less obvious. Again, academically top kids are admitted to these schools, but it is slightly less clear why one might have been admitted above another. </p>
<p>For example, every year we have at least 5 kids apply to “X”, a top 20 University. Every year one or two are admitted, but why those particular kids are admitted instead of the other 3 or 4 equally well qualified (in terms of academics and EC’s) kids is anyone’s guess.</p>
<p>It never hurts to apply to any of these schools, you just can’t count on your great academic record being all it takes. (Unless you are from western Wyoming or Barrow, Alaska.)</p>
I do think it’s possible to like most of the Ivies–especially if one of your top criteria is going to school with highly able students. My kids were both interested in all the Ivies, except for Dartmouth and Cornell (because of the location). My daughter also didn’t like Princeton. But they both would have (for example) been happy at either Brown or Columbia, despite the significant differences.</p>
<p>Why not apply? There’s no reason not to, unless:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The OP’s kid would otherwise consider applying binding ED to some other school, or</p></li>
<li><p>The high school guidance department limits the number of schools a student can apply to (or strongly discourages too many applications).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Oh there are more reasons than that not to apply. Depending on the school.</p>
<p>For Harvard don’t apply:
If you are not willing to do the work to get to know your professors.
If the field you are interested in isn’t their strong suit. (Though I made my comp sci son apply to Harvard because it was still probably a better choice than his safeties.)
If you don’t like going to school at a major tourist attraction.
If you don’t like walking through a city on your way to classes.
If you want a large Greek culture.
If you want rah-rah sports.
If you want all your classes to be small and intimate.</p>
<p>You could make a similar list for every other Ivy, with variations. What makes me sad is that a lot of people cross out Harvard for the wrong reasons - they think everyone is wealthy or everyone is a super driven type A go-getter</p>
<p>Don’t apply if you are going to be dependent on significant merit aid to attend. Don’t apply if you are looking for a significant cohort of your co-religionists (including co-religion marital partner material) that doesn’t exist at the school. Don’t apply if cold weather really turns you off. Don’t apply to at least six of the schools if you want a school in a rural, natural environment. </p>
<p>I can think of about 20 more reasons in addition to those already stated.</p>
<p>Oh yes, I agree with mathmom and mini…if the OP’s kiddo is within reach sure go ahead and apply. The only thing lost is the app fees and the only thing that could be gained as admittance. I do believe there are very much differences about the colleges in the Ivy League and location is just one of them. Even today where the kids are not as homogeneous as they were perhaps when I was a college student there are differences. I spent a semester hanging out at Harvard and not once did I “wish” I attended for about 3/4 of the reasons Mathmom mentioned and those reasons transcend the decades. I do believe kids could be able to discern and like a few out of the League as Hunt points out and humm yeah, I would have pared Brown and Columbia. In my opinion the little ivys or baby ivys are probably less distinctive and there are dozens and dozens of “if you like x you’ll like y” schools that fit that LAC niche. Just pick your flavor. As far as Tufts I couldn’t give advice as I don’t have the knowledge to parse the differences between say BU or Tufts other than how they look and where they are located in metro Boston, since I was in Boston for a half year. Stanford is on the other side of the country. Great college if you want to live in California. Same cache brand recognition as the HYP league. Great architecture, great educational opportunities and my dad really wanted to go there but couldn’t afford it in the 40s with the added travel costs and always talked about how much he wanted to go there. As long as you have a kid that isn’t one of those that thinks they “have to go to xyz or they are an abject failure in life” then apply wherever the interests lie and the personal stats line up as long as it feels financially feasible and all those caveats.</p>
Well my son must be the exception. He is a rising sophomore from a top Ivy and he has none of the EC’s you mentioned. He did have a 4.0 UW GPA, 35 on ACT, and 700’s on subject level exams. What he showed was passion for the things he did. He was a varsity soccer player but not a recruited or top player. He loved the sport and played club soccer for quite a few years. He also was into theater and acted in quite a few school productions. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t hesitate to apply to a few top schools with the understanding that it will be a reach. Make sure you apply to high acceptance schools as well so you have a fall back plan. The bottom line is you definitely will not get accepted if you don’t apply and you never know what a school is looking for in a particular class year.</p>
<p>My D is very smart, had top level grades, scores, recommendations, and ‘stellar’ ECs with national level recognition and awards in more than one type of area. She wrote beautiful essays. She got into Yale.</p>
<p>Her classmate was obscenely smart, had perfect SAT and ACT scores, perfect grades. His recommendations reportedly attested to the fact that he was one of the brightest intellects the teachers had ever seen. His essays were not very carefully written. He had almost no E.C.'s except for some very feeble participation within some school clubs and local sporting events. He did not get into Yale.</p>
<p>He had to settle for Harvard.</p>
<p>My advice to the OP: If HYPSM are a good fit for your kid, if your kid is interested in applying, and if your preliminary analysis suggests you could afford the cost (or qualify for financial aid), then yes, go for it.</p>
<p>“Baby ivies” do not exist. Your son should go where he wants to go, not on terms of prestige. Go where he wants to go realistically, in terms of fit. If it fits his personality, take the chance. All that will be lost will be app fees.</p>
<p>I agree with the rest…if your son is really interested in a school, have him apply. However know ahead of time that at these ivys you will have to fill out a css profile with all your financial information and submit it before he is accepted. I just wanted to point this out as my s only applied to one profile school and although it was a long shot (and he didn’t get in) we spent a lot of time on these financials. Also this information is “out there” which makes me a little uncomfortable because of identity theft reasons. We would still do it over again for the chance however it surprised me how much time it took pulling this info and submitting the idot took.</p>
<p>It is usually the case that the kids who are more likely to be accepted to these schools are those with the stats as well as at least one achievement in EC above the school or school district level. Otherwise, those who are accepted and those who are not accepted are almost equal in their stats. Actually, I sometimes feel that a very good EC could tromp slightly lower stats, but not the other way around.</p>
<p>An example is that one non-URM kid from DS’s class got into H with two ECs at the state level (none of these are in the academic area, and not an athlete either), but he ranks almost 20 in the class (did have excellent SAT 1 scores though.) Out of the top 10 kids in school’s rank, only 3 got acepted into similar schools. He did not choose to attend in the end though. It is likely because he and his parents thought it was not worth the price tag (both of the parents are professionals and he did not get a good FA package.) He is also quite the kind of kid who is more an “independent thinker” (and actually somewhat rebelious against the authority.) , and rarely like to please the teacher in order to get a good grade.</p>
<p>Character and ability to overcome obstacles are major factors for Harvard and other top schools.</p>
<p>The term is “little Ivy” not “baby Ivy,” and it does not connote second tier status. Little Ivies are top schools as well. Originally, these “Ivy” terms came from athletic leagues.</p>
<p>Little Ivies include Tufts, Amherst, Williams, Bates, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Hamilton and a few more.</p>
<p>I would agree with what JHS said and some others. For any school, your S needs to know why he wants to go there and be able to articulate that in an essay, and also express interest in other ways. Also - I strongly feel that teacher recommendations are critical. They need to be personal and passionate. I think if these two factors are present - then no school is really out of reach as long as you have the basic grades/scores. Also you have a better chance EA or ED.</p>
<p>The little ivy teams I believe are now the NESCAC and include Amherst, Wesleyan,Williams Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Connecticut College, Hamilton, Middlebury, Trinity, and Tufts. Like the Ivy League the colleges are all very different despite being in the same sports league.</p>