Appreciate any feedback / recommendations on college selection

Parents Forum
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<p>I am trying to help my Son, a HS Junior, in finding suitable colleges. He is intelligent but quite laid back, is very good in Science, Math & Econ, but not so interested in English (specially writing, liberal arts etc.). </p>

<p>Stats: GPA 3.94/4.00 (Unweighted), 36 ACT (7/12 Writing – 1st attempt in HS, pending results for 2nd attempt), likely to qualify for National Merit semifinalist in Michigan (PSAT 216 > 209 MI cutoff), SAT II: 790 Chem., 800 Math2 , AP Chem = 5. Currently taking 3 AP (Physics B, Calc BC & Econ (Macro/Micro) [4 more AP planned for Senior year]. Volunteers 3 hrs/Week at a local hospital; expected to log 100 – 200 Hrs before applying for college admission. VP – HS Robotics Club (many District & State awards), Soup Kitchen organizer at local place of worship, Mensa. Ethnicity: South Asian. </p>

<p>Currently we are trying to narrow the choices among the following: </p>

<p>US (Science / Eng): Michigan, Mich State, Berkeley, Rice, Duke, Wisconsin, Illinois (Urbana). [Very long shots: Columbia (Fu College Eng), Upenn & Yale]. </p>

<p>Canada (Science / Eng): Toronto, McGill & British Columbia. </p>

<p>BS/MD: Long Shots: 10-12 Universities, mostly tier 3- tier 4. [Tier 1: Very long shots: Northwestern, Case Western, Ohio State]</p>

<p>We have visited 5 Universities & plan on visiting 4 more in near future. </p>

<p>Hoping to obtain academic scholarships. Appreciate any feedback on college selection & recommendations.</p>

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<p>“Hoping to obtain academic scholarships”
You need to add USC to his list [ # 26 USNWR] . NMF’s are guaranteed a 1/2 tuition scholarship, and with his stats AND if he applies by the Dec 1 deadline is will be eligible for one of the 100 or so Trustee Full tuition scholarships.
<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/private/docs/1011/uscScholarships2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/private/docs/1011/uscScholarships2010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>USC has a BS/MD program as well,
[Baccalaureate/MD</a> Program > USC College of Letters, Arts & Sciences](<a href=“http://college.usc.edu/baccalaureate-md-program/]Baccalaureate/MD”>http://college.usc.edu/baccalaureate-md-program/)
and has the 3rd highest number of NMF’s of any US college.</p>

<p>USC has one of the most diverse UG student populations in the US as well</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/private/0910/FreshmanProfile2009.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>With his stats, he should be an excellent prospect at Michigan which has rolling admissions and is a great school. UIUC would also be a great safety. With this in mind, he can narrow down his choice to reaches, rather than load up on safeties</p>

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<p>Thanks for pointing out USC to be added to the list. </p>

<p>My understanding of admission to any BS/MD is that it is extremely competitive. Add to it the probability of getting a full (or half) tuition scholarship for 4 years & one has to wonder about the feasibility. In case of USC, for 2008-2009 entering class, 222 OOS students applied and only 8 were admitted, as compared to 23/295 for in-state (Ref: 2010-2011 MSAR). In many cases, it is very difficult to obtain average range of statistics of HS students who were admitted to BS/MD programs, making it difficult to compare one’s chances of getting admission.</p>

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<p>wait. USC is a PRIVATE COLLEGE, and does not favor instate students vrs OOS, like the UC’s ARE REQUIRED TO, since they are public U’s and are funded by Calif taxpayers. Many Calif students apply to USC, AND there are more college level students in Calif than in any other state, so yes, a large % of USC’s population is comprised of Calif students. Just as a large % of east coast colleges are filled with east coast kids. And 1 years admissions results to the BS/MD program do not represent a bias or a trend. The BS/ MD programs ARE the absolute most competitive UG programs, so if your son wants a better chance at acceptance to a great U where he can prepare himself well for med school, [ and have the opportunity to reduce his UG tuition expenses] he should not limit himself to applying to BS/MD programs only.</p>

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<p>Yes, not wanting for my son to be saddled with huge debts in his UG (or in PG), I am using the following approach:</p>

<p>Track 1: Seek & apply to a fully funded UG in a BS/MD program, preferably from a reputable Tier 1 institution. Graduate with a marketable UG major (engineering / health care /…, should he change his mind about med school). Apply to schools that have lower (total) medical school costs. </p>

<p>Track 2: Seek admission to tier 1 institutions that offer generous academic scholarships & programs in science / engineering and provides great UG experience.</p>

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<p>I think USC will fit well into your strategy, even if he does not get into BS/MD program…
(he would have an automatic half-tuition scholarship, and a shot at full tuition one).
Also, check out Rhodes - they are very generous with merit money for high-stats students.</p>

<p>WUSTL is a long shot merit-wise, but could be a very good place otherwise… (merit scholarships are extremely competitive, and require additional application). They also have a BS/MD program, but it is very competitive, and the medschool admission is contingent on high GPA and MCAT scores.</p>

<p>And I assume you know that there are no merit scholarships at Columbia, Penn or Yale…)</p>

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<p>I forgot to mention that USC has a highly rated UG engineering program [ Vertibi] as well. Is your S ABSOLUTELY SURE he wants to be a MD? If not, why not save the stress of a 2 tiered approach and just go for track 2? With his ACT score and subject scores he will accepted at many top colleges, and if USC doesn’t accept him[ given that his essays have to be great] I will have a heart attack! Oh! add Rhodes college to his list. They have great merit scholarships for top students, and a great pre-med program. Check out CC poster Curmudgeons posts from 4 years ago- his D was accepted at Yale, but decided to go Rhodes after winning a prestigious full ride scholarship there, and NOW has [once again,] been accepted at Yale [ med school this time]. You can find him [ Cur] these days on the CC med school forums. You won’t get better advise from anyone on CC about looking for merit $$.</p>

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<p>Rice, rice, rice, rice, rice… ;)</p>

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<p>Thanks for excellent suggestions; please keep it coming. </p>

<p>I have no idea which major my S will choose in college, other than that it will likely be in STEM / Econ areas, given his demonstrated inclination / aptitude in HS. Of course, students do change their mind once they are in college. There is a chance that he may not even end up going to med school. In case he chooses some esoteric major in college, one that may not provide a stable livelihood, my recommendation will be that he has a double major, so he has the skill sets to be economically autonomous; we are planning for his college debts to be (hopefully!) less than 25-30% of his 1st year take home (net) income. Post graduate expenses, should he choose to pursue medicine, will be a big economic burden. Cost of attendance will, therefore, be a contributing factor in choosing BS/MD programs. </p>

<p>A few LACs offer 3+2 option, with 2 years spent in getting an additional degree. In my limited contacts with a few LACs, I was informed that the majority of students (at the few LACs), finish their 4 years at the LAC and pursue an additional (professional) degree from other Universities. Nowadays with fewer students graduating within the prescribed duration, and that my S’s limited interest in pursuing Liberal Arts, I am somewhat hesitant for my S to take the 3+2 route. Hopefully he will see the benefits of pursuing a Liberal Arts education, along with a professional track. Perhaps Honors college within an University setting might be another option. </p>

<p>It all comes down to a balance between total cost of attendance versus attractiveness (benefits) of various educational institutions. Will UPenn, Columbia or Yale be good choices for him, say in comparison to State Schools (+ other private Univ. such as USC, Rice,…), it is still unknown, because of uncertainty surrounding admissions and academic scholarships / grants.</p>

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<p>OP,
If you are not eligible for need-based aid, and not able to pay the full price, there is no point applying to schools that do not offer merit scholarships. It is very frustrating for all involved when a student gets accepted to his dream school, but can’t attend due to finances.</p>

<p>If you are eligible for need-based aid, some expensive private schools with generous aid may turn out to be cheaper than even in-state public. </p>

<p>Some schools have extensive core requirements (Columbia, U Chicago). If your son trully dislikes humanities, Columbia may not be a good choice for him.</p>

<p>Some LACs do have engineering programs. I know that Swarthmore does.</p>

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<p>Carnegie Mellon, may not work from the money point of view, but it has very generous AP rules if you get 4s and 5s. I agree Rice is great for science and has pretty good aid from what I hear.</p>

<p>With a 36 ACT there is no reason for your son to take it again. Don’t worry about the writing score. He should take the SAT so that he can get the NMF designation. He can practice writing their kind of essay.</p>

<p>I don’t think any high schooler should be looking at BS/MD programs unless they are positive they want to be a doctor, which would include having done volunteer work in a medical setting.</p>

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<p>“He should take the SAT so that he can get the NMF designation.”
Yes! That is a requirement for NMF eligibility. I suggest he take it this June, instead of during his Sr year.</p>

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<p>

I believe the core is modified for Fu, but you should be sure you understand this.</p>

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<p>I second USC, decent chances of scholarship AND the BA/MD. Consider University of Pittsburgh for a school with rolling admissions, good merit aid and strong in the medical sciences.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the heads up on core requirements.</p>

<ol>
<li>The core for non technical requirements for Columbia Fu SEAS (School of Engineering and Applied Sciences) appears to be fairly flexible; of 128 points required for graduation, 27 are non technical requirements.</li>
</ol>

<p>[Fu</a> Foundation School of Engineering and Applied Science Advising | Student Affairs](<a href=“Columbia Engineering Advising | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering”>Columbia Engineering Advising | Columbia College and Columbia Engineering)</p>

<p>I think my S should be able handle it. </p>

<p>In comparison, Yale SEAS requires about 9 out of 36 courses as core requirements, which includes 2 semester courses in writing + 2 courses in humanities. </p>

<p>[Distributional</a> Requirements | Yale College | Yale College Programs of Study](<a href=“Yale College”>Yale College)</p>

<p>My S definitely needs to investigate further. </p>

<ol>
<li>S took the SAT the past Weekend. Didn’t study much for it (3 practice tests only); hope he gets some decent results.</li>
</ol>

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<p>You mentioned your son was more interested in science, math and econ than liberal arts but I just wanted to point out that those are bread and butter areas at some LACs. I wouldn’t write them off if he might be more inclined to a more intimate educational setting.</p>

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<p>True, S is more interested in Science, Math & Econ. However, as a parent, I believe he needs to be well rounded. S needs to make his final selection in due course of time (7 months); hoping that he will include Perhaps some of these LACs that offer specific fields of engineering (Chemical or Bio Medical). They may well be a reach for him.</p>

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<p>You may want to look at UG schools that are known to have a high percentage that feed into med school while still being strong in their own right. Such as Williams, U.of Penn, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Middlebury, Johns Hopkins, Brandeis, William and Mary. Vanderbilt also may be a good choice as they seem to be diversifying more and are known to have strong Financial aid packages. Rice seems like a great choice. Also, what about Wash U?</p>

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<p>You should be aware that all three “long shots”–Columbia, Penn, Yale–give ZERO merit aid (or as you call it, "academic scholarships). Are you willing to shell out full price for them, if you don’t qualify for need-based aid? Northwestern also gives no merit aid.</p>

<p>

I would seriously reconsider choosing a BA/MD program.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t recomend 3/2 programs at LACs. However, engineering LACs are worth a look–Swarthmore, Bucknell, Union, Harvey Mudd… However, Swarthmore will not offer you merit aid (unless you live on the Delmarva Peninsula).</p>