<p>I would have expected better. UW needs to learn marketing 101. Compared to our peers--not very good.</p>
<p>UW-Madison</a> applications rise as interest from international students increases</p>
<p>Who cares about marketing? The university doesn’t need to waste its money just to get even more students who get rejected. This is education, not business. It is already a shame so much money and time is spent on the “glossy brochures” of whatever media to “sell” a product that is getting filled every year with quality students. The whole world does not revolve around the business model at all times.</p>
<p>The Wis State J article was interesting. So many more internationals than in the past, about the same otherwise. 75% required by law to be instate of the hoped for 5700 new freshmen (a few years ago they got closer to 6000 who came- too many for getting dorms and classes so they are less free with the earlier admissions now).</p>
<p>No, it does. Business is about competition and so is running any organization that wants to succeed. I did not say they need to spend another dime. They just need to know how to do it more effectively. You think they don’t compete every day for grants. donations, athletes, professors and down the line??? Creating the best image of the school starts with attracting the best students. Ask anyone else here. Michigan does a great job. UW does not. And it starts with student recruitment.</p>
<p>Sigh. I consider UW very successful. Having a lower acceptance rate because even more students that can attend apply will not get the grad schools’ grants. No sense wasting money recruiting more freshmen who can’t get in. Not all of life is about competition- there is cooperation, too. Success is about more than numbers or things apparent from as businees viewpoint.</p>
<p>Do you want students to get good jobs after graduation?? A big part of attracting the top employers and grad schools is having top students. You get more top students by being more exclusive. It might seem silly or unfair but that’s how the world works.</p>
<p>^okay, dad.</p>
<p>You might pray the economy is better when you get out. Today’s grads are hurting badly and not very jovial about it. Nobody was planning to live with m&d and work for minimum wage again. I feel badly for them because when things pick up again the Class of 2009 and probably 2010 will be overlooked as the jobs go to the Class of 2011. It’s often a Permanent handicap that is never recovered from according to some studies.</p>
<p>
A good place to start fixing UW’s problems would be to address the huge discrepancy between Michigan’s and UW’s 4-year graduation rates. The best students are not going to be willing to put up with UW’s systemic roadblocks in their course progression.</p>
<p>75% of the best students come from the state. The state drinking culture needs to be addressed in every area of the state to change that culture. No “recruitment” needed to fill the available spots with top students. Need to look beyond the job market for the business school- the majority get their degree through L&S. Exclusitivity up to a point- but just as a 2400 SAT or 36 ACT doesn’t guarantee admission to an Ivy neither does having a smidge better stats get one the jobs- Michigan’s admissions stats are not that different from UW’s, btw. UW is addressing the need for more entry level course availability when many schools are cutting back. Perhaps barrons wants more name recognition like Michigan’s- perceptions of the school from outside the sphere of influence.</p>
<p>I’m not worried about the quality of education at UW- especially in many fields and grad schools. The caliber of students has been rising recently. I think comparisons, like statistics, can be manipulated many ways- using superlatives for example. Also- one needs to consider many variables when looking at post graduation success including location- where the grads want to be after graduation. I don’t think recruiting different OOS students will change much. Another consideration- state population, the drawing area for 75% of Michigan and Wisconsin’s student bodies. Michigan’s 10+ million to Wisconsin’s 5+ million residents means there are probably nearly twice as many Michigan HS students vying for a similar number of spots in their flagship school as in Wisconsin- that can change admission statistics. Could go on forever manipulating numbers. The point is that I don’t feel UW needs to waste money trying to up the caliber a small bit- the economics just aren’t there in terms of costs and benefits.</p>
<p>Every ogranization needs to do recruitment. To think otherwise is ridiculous. And it does not require lots of money. Just some better use of what’s there. Greater utiliztion of national alumni network to work as volunteers in recruiting students is one way that other schools use at little cost. An inhouse strudy by UW indicated they did not even send letters to the top Wisconsin students to invite them to apply. That’s marketing 101. Keep your best potential customers aware you want them. Little things that add up.</p>
<p>Jiff–go worry abbout the impending bankruptcy of Illiinois. And their massive pending tuition hikes. We are dealing with making good things beter. Not just trying to stay open and pay the bills.</p>
<p>Good? LOL… UW’s 4-year graduation rate is WAY TOO LOW for a top 10.
[Comparison:</a> UCLA and UW-Madison; UW only graduates half on time?! University and State](<a href=“Private Site”>Private Site)</p>
<p>UW has many more self-supporting students than other peers. You really can’t compare such stats without knowing more. If you want to do it in 4 years you can. Many like Madison and are in no hurry. It’s just a little different–always has been. Now shoo. Go make some cupcakes for the Illinois bakesale–they need the cash now.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dailyillini.com/news/illinois/2009/12/04/report-predicts-illinois-financial-crisis[/url]”>http://www.dailyillini.com/news/illinois/2009/12/04/report-predicts-illinois-financial-crisis</a></p>
<p>My guess is that UCLA graduates more in 4 years because most all freshman come in with many AP units. I know a lot come to Wisconsin Madison with AP units as well, but UCLA is so competitive that the vast majority of kids that are accepted have way more AP units. While the ACT/SAT scores may be similar, it is far more difficult to get into UCLA since more kids apply there than any other school in the country (I think). And according to the UW-Admission site, OOS students tend to graduate faster than in state students. It may be that they come in with more AP units, or are more motivated to stop paying the OOS tuition. Having said that, I realize there are some problems at times with getting in all of the classes one needs to graduate on time. But having researched this issue extensively, I believe a motivated and focused student with ap units coming in can certainly do it.</p>
<p>And there’s always adulation from the media</p>
<p>[Forde</a> Minutes: 40 names, games, teams and minutiae making news in college hoops - ESPN](<a href=“Juan Soto homers, Cody Poteet wins New York debut as Yankees sweep Guardians and improve to 12-3 - ESPN”>Forde Minutes: 40 names, games, teams and minutiae making news in college hoops - ESPN)</p>
<p>JeffisMom: Read that University and State post again. It says that while 4 year rates lag, UW is strikingly comparable to UCLA, Michigan, et al.</p>
<p>Peer school of the nation’s best publics? Absolutely. Any good student can get out in 4.</p>
<p>One thing that makes UW different than other similar schools is that they send essentially no mailings. I noticed that (and was quite happy about not recieving more junk mail) but my parents did too and were concerned that Madison didn’t “want” me bad enough, no matter how many times I informed them Madison doesn’t send out mailings. Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Nebraska, Ohio State, Syracuse, and numerous other schools sent me mailings almost two to three times weekly. Again, I was annoyed by these but they impressed my parents cause they felt these schools were “interested” in me. I’m just pointing out that this is how things are.</p>
<p>Also I think most of you know this, but the partying image of Madison is HUGE, and far exceeds the academic reputation of the school in high schools around WI and MN. This prevented a large number of top kids in my grade, who probably would have been a great fit for the school, from applying because they (or their parents) were scared by the reputation, despite the top notch academics. Since I’ve started telling people this is where I’m going next year, every single person brings up the partying scene before the academics or research which is kind of annoying.</p>
<p>I’m going to agree with Barrons that the school could definitely improve its marketing ability and try and make it seem more “academic” like Michigan or Berkeley, while still preserving its image as a top notch place to have fun for four years. Plus, a decreased acceptance rate could help with recruiting of students in the business school for certain jobs including, but not limited to, iBanking.</p>
<p>
So, UW only has about 50% ‘good’ students? :eek:</p>
<p>
That won’t happen until UW addresses the systemic problems (course lockouts, etc.) that keep the 4-year grad rate substantially lower than the other top 10s (excluding GA Tech due to its large percentage of engineering students).</p>
<p>
Does UIUC have problems? Yes. Do you see anyone denying that? No. Do you see various people proposing and trying various ways to address the issues? Yes.</p>
<p>Contrast that with the chest-beating problem denial behavior here, especially by you, and it’s pretty easy to see why UW’s 4-year grad rate persistently remains so far below that of their peers. You’re so busy denying that there are systemic problems causing course enrollment roadblocks (freshman only lockouts, school lockouts, etc.) for a fairly high percentage of students that you’re actually prolonging the problem.</p>
<p>Then again, you could always go with the theory proposed by the discussion of Critical Badger’s post on University and State that UW students are just unmotivated and lazy. How will that look on the recruiting brochures?</p>
<p>
Look at the stats from UW’s and U Michigan’s common data sets item H4: Provide the percentage of the class (defined above) who borrowed at any time through any loan programs (institutional, state, Federal Perkins, Federal Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized, private loans that were certified by your institution, etc.; exclude parent loans).</p>
<p>UW: 51.7%
U Mich: 46%</p>
<p>Not enough to explain a nearly 20% gap in 4-year grad rates.</p>