Architecture, how hard is it, and do architects make a good living?

College Majors Architecture Major
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<p>there's not a lot of math and science involved....most of them are mainly just structure and building tech courses....and theyre not too hard. design is the main focus of most arch schools....particularly generating ideas and becoming critical thinkers.</p>

<p>architecture however is not pure art. it is not completely subjective and could be compared to debate..you have to be very critical in how you think (but sometimes you have to be irrational as well). however, like art, its way of teaching you how to think is very open...so being creative is very important.</p>

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<p>Architecture is really its own thing-- yes there is tons of design- but it is a different method of thinking altogether. You have to try it out to know if you will like it.</p>

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<p>Yew...this is getting confusing. Sounds like arch school is darn busy for some, not that much for others.</p>

<p>I'm not 100% sure what to take. I love designs but I'm good at physics as well, and math...except calculus that is.</p>

<p>I dont mind working hard as long as theres decent time to socialize.</p>

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<p>"As far as; will I have a social life? I always tell folks that architecture is not a major, it is a cult. Who needs a social life when you are part of a cult?"</p>

<p>I do.</p>

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<p>Lp75- you seem to be confused about the degree types. A BArch is just an abbreviation for a Bachelors in Architecture, which is the degree with the heavier workload. A BA or BS in Architecture may have a lesser workload.</p>

<p>I would bet that though gomestar's girlfriend is in studio "substantially less than most people", she still spends more time on her work than people in other majors do.</p>

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<p>But is it true you need the BArch to get licensed?</p>

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<p>In most states you need an accredited degree to get licensed. An accredited degree can be a B.Arch OR an M.Arch. If you're planning on working in a specific state, then check with your state's licensing board for their requirements. If you're not sure, plan on getting an accredited degree at some point.</p>

<p>The general recommendation is that those who are very sure about architecture should get a B.Arch, and those who are less sure should consider a pre-professional (BA or BS) program, and then go for an M.Arch if they do decide they want to pursue architecture. BA/BS programs are generally easier to transfer out of if one decides they want to do something else, while B.Arch programs are so architecture immersive that if you decide to change majors, you won't have taken as many general education classes and such as people who started in that major, which can make school take a bit longer. Of course, if you're willing to take that risk, there's nothing stopping you from trying out a B.Arch program despite some uncertainty.</p>

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<p>Da<em>mad</em>cow...</p>

<p>Like Larationalist, I also think you are confused about degree types and what they are like. Even your comment comparing undergrad at Yale to at Cornell for arch shows me your confusion because Yale is a BA and Cornell is a BArch. </p>

<p>To become a licensed architect, you need either a BArch (five year degree program) or a BA + MArch (often referred to as 4+2 but can be as many as 4+3) degree. So, there are two routes to licensure. </p>

<p>What YOU have to do is to decide if you want to enter a five year professional degree program, a BArch, or a BA with a possible Architecture Major and eventual grad school to get a MArch degree. These are very different undergraduate routes and experiences. </p>

<p>Speaking of personal experience, I have a daughter pursuing architecture. But she only wanted to apply to BA programs for several reasons. At 17, she wasn't yet ready to commit (and a BArch involves a commitment at the point of application) to a field, particularly a field she hadn't truly studied yet enough to know if it was her true calling. Unlike English, architecture was not a subject she had had in school. She had many reasons why she wanted to go into it but wasn't ready to yet commit. Also, she truly wanted to be able to study many things in college even if majoring in architecture as she has many interests and wanted a broad education as her basis before specializing. If one does a professional degree program, such as a BArch, as an undergrad, a big chunk of their curriculum is going to be in ONE area, unlike a BA major which may represent about 30% of one's undergrad curriculum. As well, my D was well aware what it is like to do a BArch type program which involves more courses and more hours than a liberal arts degree. While it is appealing to her, and she definitely wants to do that in grad school, she didn't want to do that for undergrad. It is not like she doesn't like to work hard because she works her butt off at college and attends an Ivy League school. But even when she did summer arch intensive at Harvard and lived in the studio every evening and went to classes all day (more hours than what you do in a BA course schedule), and enjoyed it, she was glad that was not the kind of undergrad experience she had chosen, even though she is happy to do that in grad school. For example, my D is very active in extracurricular pursuits at her college.....a varsity sport team that involves a huge committment daily and being away all weekend in season, a club sport team, volunteer work, heading the undergraduate major as the student leader, being a college tour guide, being an advisor to a freshman group, and so on. That would be harder or likely not possible to do if she was in a BArch program. At her college, she can cross register with a BArch program's courses at a school next door and she KNOWS the studio hours kept by BArch students and that would not fit into her college lifestyle. She prefers to do that sort of thing for graduate school. </p>

<p>These are things for you to think through as to which is the best route for YOU. For instance, I also have a daughter who is in a professional degree program as an undergraduate in a different field, but it is a terminal degree like a BArch can be. She was ready to commit but also she had been in that field her entire life and knew for sure when applying to college. She also was ready to commit to taking nine courses per semester where about 75% of the coursework is in one field and where she attends classes all day and has commitments related to her major degree program every night and most weekends. It is a very different lifestyle and time commitment than a BA program. But for her, this was the right choice. </p>

<p>That is what YOU need to decide and to understand the differences between a BA at a school such as Yale and a BArch at a school such as Cornell. By the way, I saw on another thread you were asking what GPA you must have. You need to look at the academic profile of admitted students to each college you are looking at and ascertain where your stats fall and your chances academically of getting in apart from the portfolio. It is not like a state school with number cut offs. At the more selective schools, your academic profile must be strong and in the ballpark of accepted students to that school. Obviously a strong portfolio is required but if your academic stats do not fit a PARTICULAR school, and it is so competitive to get in, a person with a good portfolio AND the requisite academic stats is going to have the advantage. It is not as if academics do not matter. Apply to schools where your academic profile is in the ballpark for the school's published stats, no matter how good your portofolio is. You also need to examine the degree requirements and curriculum for the major so that you ucan understand the big differences between doing a BA program vs. a BArch program. If you do a BA, you need to do a MArch to become licensed. </p>

<p>I hope this helps explain things a bit.</p>

<p>PS, I cross posted with larationalist's second post which overlaps what I am saying.</p>

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<p>"I would bet that though gomestar's girlfriend is in studio "substantially less than most people", she still spends more time on her work than people in other majors do."</p>

<p>nah, perhaps more than some, but all of the engineers and pre-med bio freaks have it much worse - in any case, I'd much rather be up all night doing studio type work than memorizing DNA sequences and stuff.</p>

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<p>"Lp75- you seem to be confused about the degree types. A BArch is just an abbreviation for a Bachelors in Architecture, which is the degree with the heavier workload. A BA or BS in Architecture may have a lesser workload."</p>

<p>Larationalist, I actually know the difference, but I probably didn't state it clear enough. I went back and re-read my post and can see how it isn't quite what I meant. Thank you for pointing this out.</p>

<p>So, for the record. Cornell has a Barch. Yale does not; it is a B.A. in Architecture which does not lead to licensing. </p>

<p>Soozievt, my daughter prefers the B.A. route for the very same reasons. You stated them very elegantly.</p>

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<p>Lp, I see that your daughter attends Yale. We visited that program and my D had met with one of the professors and it looked really good. My D liked Yale a bunch and it was one of her three favorites. She was deferred EA there and then not admitted in April. She loves her current school. She likely will apply to Yale for grad school, among other MArch schools. </p>

<p>One of my D's Arch professors at Brown, also teaches currently at Yale in Arch.....he lives in Providence and was at Yale this past semester I think and will be next spring again. My D has taken courses with him and is hoping to TA a course of his this fall. She applied to and was approved for an Honors Thesis with him as her advisor. That would be funny if your D was working with the same person in class that my D is at another school. Yale has a better BA undergrad arch program than Brown as it has an Arch school right there, and thus the studio that Brown doesn't have. However, Brown students can take Arch courses with BArch and MArch students at RISD and my D has taken a couple. </p>

<p>I understood what you had written in post #17 and agree with it. The number of courses per semester would likely be different in a BArch program compared to a BA program and also the percentage of classes in the major is way higher in a BArch program than in a BA program. But the intensity of the studies in a particular class is not all that different. However, a studio oriented class can involve many more hours. Going to a school like Yale or Brown is not easy. But doing a BA vs. doing a BArch is a very different kind of college experience.</p>

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<p>For those who are interested, many of the M.Arch programs -- Yale, Harvard, MIT, Cornell for example -- have information days in the Fall that are open to prospectives. My son attended a couple last year and was surprised to learn that the average age in the Harvard M.Arch program was 28 years old (I think it was Harvard, though it may have been Yale, same concept) .</p>

<p>That was one reason -- there were others -- that he decided to gain some work experience before applying. One month into his job and he still wants to be an architect when he grows up. :)</p>

<p>There are many routes to becoming and architect and everyone has to find his/her own path. The principal at the firm that my son is working for has a BA, a LAW degree, and an M.Arch, all from prestigious selective schools. He's also an accomplished fine artist. I guess that illustrates what these kids love about architecture. It combines so many skills, both creative and intellectual.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I guess that illustrates what these kids love about architecture. It combines so many skills, both creative and intellectual.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is part of what drove my child to this field and I recall this as being part of a college application essay relating her multi-faceted self to the multi-faceted field of architecture. </p>

<p>About the age....yeah, I saw that too...I think it is at Harvard's Grad School of Design (likely similar elsewhere). Education is my field, but I went to Grad School at Harvard as well, after 1 1/2 years out of college (graduated college in 3 1/2 years) and I was 23 and I recall being one of the youngest in the grad school then too. So, besides the difficult odds of admission, I do wonder if it is even more difficult for a 22 year old out of college. I guess we shall see. </p>

<p>I also agree that there are different paths to becoming successful in this field and while some maintain that a BArch degree is a better path, from what I can tell, many successful architects did a BA and then a MArch and so it can cut either way. The principal architect that my D is working with one on one at present in an international firm has a BS in Arch, a MArch and an MBA.</p>

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<p>I think the admissions process for grad school is stacked against younger applicants a bit, but not conciously. It's simply more difficult for most kids straight out of undergrad to articulate clearly WHY they feel the need to go into an M.Arch program now, exactly what they want to get out of it, and why they are applying where they are. People who have been working a bit longer and seen a bit more of the world tend to be more clear on these points and it shows in their personal statements and in which schools they choose to apply to and how well those schools actually fit them and their talents.</p>

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<p>Ok I got it now. Basically if I dont wanna go to grad school, I gotta take the BArch program. But the downside is the workload will be pretty much insane, correct?</p>

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<p>"My son attended a couple last year and was surprised to learn that the average age in the Harvard M.Arch program was 28 years old (I think it was Harvard, though it may have been Yale, same concept) ."</p>

<p>My daughter has mentioned that the Yale professors encourage students in the B.A. program to work for a few years before continuing for their MArch. They believe it provides them a better perspective and maturity when they go on to complete their studies. </p>

<p>SoozieVT, it appears that our daughter's lives are somewhat paralleling each other. She also applied to Brown, but was not accepted there. Yale fits her very well. She was always athletic and involved in many activities in high school and wanted a college experience where she could continue this involvement. Unfortunately, in order to fit in with the high school crowd, she often had to "dumb down". Now the combination of intellectual stimulation, creative pursuits and social outlets have really brought her into her own. And the Architecture major fits right in to this as well. It is creative and yet practical; she can combine multiple interests or focus on different portions. Her outlook on what she can achive is exciting to see.</p>

<p>Who is the professor with whom your daughter will be doing the honors thesis?
I will have to ask her if she knows him.</p>

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<p>Lp75 (is '75 your HS class? If so, that is mine)....</p>

<p>I will email you the professor's name as I don't want to post it. I'm not sure your D would know him as he is a Brown Professor, but I just know that this past spring, he was teaching at Yale and will again next spring in Architecture. Since he is advising her Honors Thesis, she wasn't sure if that was possible if he would be at Yale one semester, but he lives in Providence and so she can still meet with him. </p>

<p>My D will be applying to grad school out of undergrad. She knows students from her school who have gone directly to these grad schools and I hope it works out for her. </p>

<p>Yes, our D's sound similar in many ways. One thing is where we live, my D did not have to "dumb down" to fit in because it wasn't socially uncool to be smart here. Our school is smaller and actually many of the top students were also top athletes and such. But like your D, my D loves the stimulation and pursuits and other students who attend her college. The environment and the kinds of kids at college are very different than home and while she has no complaints about school/friends from home, she really loves and fits where she is now. </p>

<p>I also think it is interesting to note, while not truly pertaining to this architecture forum but more to the forums discussing elite college admissions, but here we have a typical thing....one kid gets into Yale but not Brown and another gets into Brown but not Yale, which is very very common and indicates that with schools with such low admit rates, they turn away many who are qualified and attractive as students and you do have to be in the right ballpark to be considered, but after that, there is an element of luck as to which school takes you into their class. Luckily for my kid, and sounds like this was true for yours too, is that she truly liked several schools and didn't have one "must have" school. And in the end, the girls love their schools!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Harvard M.Arch program was 28 years old

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What is the breakdown between MArch Is and IIs? I would assume that March IIs are older but I would be interested in knowing the percentage of each.</p>

<p>I don't think age matters as much for a MArch I--but I don't have the data. 28 is pretty old to start an MArch I, in my opinion. Esp for females. Most of the MArch Is that I know started soon after undergrad.</p>

<p>nahj...design talent rules in archtiecture school. It is very frustrating to compete against peers who are one hundred times more fascile. The weaker artists tend to get shunted aside in critiques. Everyone wants to drool over the sexy presentation. </p>

<p>How are your model making skills?</p>

<p>I recommend that prospective students try to sit in on at least one upper level critique --at any architecture school. That should give you an idea if your 'interest' will sustain you through the work and the competition.</p>

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<p>da<em>mad</em>cow-</p>

<p>you seem to worry a lot on the workload...and trust me..the workload is heavy in any architecture school. if you don't do the b.arch, you will have to do the M.arch (that is if you want to get licensed) and that is just as heavy in terms of workload. there's no escape from it. if you're serious about architecture, you have to be ready to commit to the workload because the profession is not any easier. sorry i might seem harsh but this is reality. finally, if you really do enjoy architecture and have a passion for it, the workload will be, for the most of the time, rewarding. you will also need that passion to keep you going. 5 years is a long time and passion is so necessary. if workload is more of a concern than whether you are passionate about architecture, i would highly suggest you to consider very carefully whether architecture is for you.</p>

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<p>Indeed. I still have time to think about it, its either civil/structural engineering or architecture.</p>

<p>I do notice the passion needed to keep me goin. I just wish theres more than 24 hrs in a day. I had to sacrifice my social life involuntarily in highschool, I'm not losing it again here in college. If doing BA or BS first is lighter in terms of courseload, I might take it instead. </p>

<p>I'm not that lazy. I dont mind working really hard in grad school, in the end the time for serious commitment will come anyway. I just hope it wont have to come so early in my undergraduate yr. At the very least I dont wanna face the heavy workloads till my 4th yr, when I've got enough social life I never had before. 3 years of social life will make the cut I think.</p>