<p>Not that I agree with everything these people have to say, but there's some truth in it: </p>
<p>I do agree that becoming a real-estate agent is a *vastly *easier way to make real money.<br>
Anyone who enters the profession of architecture as a way to get rich needs to have his or her head examined.</p>
<p>well duh, you don't go into the career expecting to make six figures. on the otherhand, the pay isn't THAT bad. it's manageable and it increases proportionately with years of experience. it's probably easier to earn more money as a real estate agent but I would rather work in an architecture firm than be a real estate agent anytime.</p>
<p>actually, one of the things most commonly said when people find out I'm in architecture is, "wow, architects must be making a ton of money right now" (referring to current construction boom). Many people are fooled by the heavy education, time, and licensure requirements into considering architects alongside engineers or lawyers, so the statement "you don't go into the career expecting to make six figures" just doesn't ring true, because there are certainly people who go into architecture thinking that.</p>
<p>There is also an unfortunate amount of truth to the statements which do not have to do with pay.</p>
<p>Whoah, this is sort of discouraging. But I'd rather hear it now from you than later on.</p>
<p>hmmm I hope landscape architecture and urban planning aren't careers from hell too (well at least not as much as architecture)</p>
<p>They're not as bad, in my view. The chief strike against architecture in the employment marketplace is the oversupply of workers. It tilts the hand in favor of employers, who often (as a couple of the notes described) get contracts by bidding low and then taking it out on their workers. Knowing that they can replace you in an instant has a chilling effect on the relationship. My firm in NY paid its interns nothing, so one of the partners started 'hiring' as many as he could. They didn't know much, but hey it was hard to beat the numbers on that. Then the phenomenon became publicized and we had to phase that out because of legal implications. We didn't start paying them, we just fired them. </p>
<p>There was one firm I knew where employees were treated with dignity and respect. They *appear *to still be in business ;)</p>
<p>I don't think I've ever worked at a firm that "treated with dignity and respect" in every way. Some let you have creative freedom, but paid you peanuts (and shoved their corporate taxes onto you, so you were left with half a peanut); others pay you well and work you reasonable hours, but provide no way to advance so you are just a well-paid CADmonkey. All of the above have had egotistical bosses who felt like they could take things out on employees.</p>
<p>
[quote]
All of the above have had egotistical bosses who felt like they could take things out on employees.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Definitely, the field is rife with that. But I think a lot of it's simply a result of the oversupply of workers. If it were hard to hire architectural employees, they'd be treated with more respect. </p>
<p>Anyway, add this to the low pay, and I really wonder what's being achieved by efforts to diversify the profession. Sure, in theory every profession should be diverse, but it seems to me that it's doing a disservice to URM to have them enter a profession such as architecture. Really! Better they should be doctors, lawyers, financiers and such.</p>
<p>^^^ I say this in relation to the first link above, apparently written by an URM. However, I wonder how much he extrapolates from abusive situations which are really typical for the profession.</p>
<p>I can see that arguement. The brushing off of complaints of poor communication that was mentioned in the first link makes me bristle a bit. Communication is such a really, REALLY BIG part of architecture, that it irritates me that someone would attribute a complaint like that to racism. I've worked and went to school with several white people who had communication problems, and they've been treated the same way that URMs with communication problems do- they've been fired, or not hired in the first place. It's hard enough to communicate effectively in this field without a language barrier adding to the problem, so people who have communication issues should be upfront with themselves about it, that they're going to have to work twice as hard to be effective.</p>
<p>although, I've got to mention that there's no oversupply of workers where I'm at.... one of my teammates decided to leave us a week ago, didn't have a job lined up, just decided she'd had enough, and a week later she's got two offers in hand, and is awaiting the results of several more interviews. When I graduated a couple of years ago, I could've had my pick of firms if I'd waited until the right time (stupid, stupid, stupid for taking an offer so soon). So at least in LA, there's a ton of demand, and they still treat 'interns' like trash.</p>
<p>The last few years have definitely been good times for architects, as well as for everyone else in the building trades. The difference is, architects remain generally underpaid and abused even in the good times. In the bad times, let's not talk about it!</p>
<p>hmm well, the money doesnt bother me as much as the job security. i didnt know it was as "unsteady" as that makes it seem. is it really that hard to find decent jobs in, say, boston, or other major cities?</p>
<p>The thing is architects are cooler than a lot of the rest, as a general rule.</p>
<p>ryanmac- employment is largely dependent on the economy so sometimes architects will be laid off and sometimes there will be a high demand for architects. during times when it is difficult to find work, many architects do other work in related fields such as interior design, or website design, etc. usually the most innonative projects come from difficult times because architects have to be creative and produce oftentimes, interesting and creative work. </p>
<p>since architecture employment is so regional, I think the more versatile you are to work in different places, the better security you have. One location may have a bad year but another place may be booming. In an increasing globalized world where more architects are beginning to design projects all over the world, it is not as difficult to find work in places like Asia and the Middle East where the construction industry is hot. Many firms have projects in Asia, America, etc so they are not as badly affected when one region suffers.</p>
<p>^^people who can speak mandarin are in particularly high demand right now because of the construction boom in Shanghai. These aren't the creative jobs, persay, but more client-interaction/communication/project-management type jobs, but could still be a great experience for those who qualify. I also know a couple of people on year-long contracts in Dubai that are having a blast.</p>
<p>ok, wait a second. I just realized- why is it ok to base a hiring decision on whether the candidate does or does not know Mandarin Chinese so that they can communicate with Chinese clients, but it is not ok to base a hiring decision off of whether the candidate knows English or not, so that they can communicate with the people in their workplace? Sorry for the rant, but Marsden directing me to re-read the link originally posted made me really think about this issue, and it's something that genuinely bugs me.</p>
<p>Jeez.</p>
<p>First, the happiest career in archtiecture is the one in which you start and work in your own firm. It is by FAR the most lucrative path for the majority. Mid-six figure salaires are not uncommon in a firm doing large scale commerical work. Low six figure salaries are not uncommon for those doing high-end residential work.</p>
<p>Second, the above posts should be your warning: ** choose your apprenticeships very, very carefully.**</p>
<p>I disagree that it is 'easy' to hire architects. In 21 years of operating a firm in two states and two countries, that hasn't been my experience at all. It isn't that difficult to hire CAD draughtsmen--it is very tough to find and hire talented architects. I still wince when I think of the great ones that left. I remember one hiring partner kicking the wall when I told him I was leaving the office to go work for another firm.</p>
<p>The best place to find and hire talented architects is in New York--partially because so many talented architects gravitate to New York. Outside of New York, finding interesting architects to populate your office is HARD work. </p>
<p>FWIW, I worked in some fabulous famous offices back in the day--all of which are still high profile firms in New York. All the employees were treated well--me included--especially considering that I was using them to get to my license. I loved working in those offices. I loved the bosses. I loved the projects. I learned a TON. I loved the people. Those offices are FULL of incredible talent. GET THEE TO A FAMOUS OFFICE IN NEW YORK IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.</p>
<p>I've had an amazing career--all over the world--and I feel as though I am just getting started at 50. This is an old person's creative profession. The biggest work and the best ability comes at the end of your life--not the beginning.</p>
<p>the corporate firms like SOM treat you really well...like more pay, dinners, company outings, bonuses, etc. of course whether you want to be in a corporate firm or not, that's up to you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
GET THEE TO A FAMOUS OFFICE IN NEW YORK IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I agree. I did it and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. </p>
<p>But they worked us 5-6 nights a week -- and I'm talking 10pm, midnight, later, and the pay sucked, because people would kill to work there. Most everyone there had 'family' money or was married to a lawyer whom they never saw. </p>
<p>Wives would bring the kids in to the office on Saturdays so the families could be together once in awhile. Most of us didn't have families, though, as it would have been kind of crazy to do that with no money and no time.</p>