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<p>To the extent that there are any tracks at all (even if just regular college-prep and vocational-prep, with no AP, IB, PSEO, etc.) that problem would still exist if the tracking decisions were made in a way that discriminates on the basis of socioeconomic background or ethnicity.</p>
<p>For top students, it’s 10 years from starting high school to finishing grad school (the new basic diploma, it seems). Being able to shave a year or two off that can be desirable, especially for those with limited resources.</p>
<p>It would be nice, however, for there to be a teach-yourself-and-take-the-test option for high school classes. It’s rather strange that a smart high school student can self-study and pre-earn college credits, but not high school credits. An easier 3-year HS option would be good for kids ready to move on to college work full-time.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if the kids have to take the AP exam here but the school pays for it so why not. Matter of fact when DD was in 10th grade her school had about 10 extra seats for the AP English Comp test and offered them to her and some classmates. DD took the test and scored a 4 having never taken the AP class nor studied. </p>
<p>This year the district has partnered up with a non-profit and is paying kids $100 per test for passing score for math, science and english. They are also offering tutoring. The IB kids have been told they can take the AP tests if they want.</p>
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<p>Most bachelor’s degree graduates do not immediately go to graduate or professional school.</p>
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<p>It is at least theoretically possible. For example, a student can take the GED to get a high school diploma equivalent. For a school like any University of California, the subject requirements for N years of high school courses can be alternatively filled by test scores: [University</a> of California - A-G courses](<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/index.html]University”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/index.html) . Applicants can become eligible with only test scores as well: [University</a> of California - Admission by exam](<a href=“http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination/index.html]University”>http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/examination/index.html) . Of course, gaining eligibility does not necessarily mean admission to any specific campus.</p>
<p>But would it be that surprising if some other colleges also had similar admissions procedures for students who do as you describe?</p>
<p>(Of course, the possibility of doing this does not necessarily mean that is desirable for any given student, or that it is very common.)</p>
<p>I hate teaching to the test. So I absolutely despise my AP Lit class. I wish I could drop the thing. I would rather take English and college than deal with this course.</p>
<p>AP tests are good in the sense that they are a higher level that is standard throughout the country (and heck the world). Honors classes can be easier than some CP classes at other schools. This makes it easier to compare students from different counties, states, and even countries. Not only that but the tests are difficult. Even so the scores are given on a bell curve. This means that if the test is in fact easy, then everyone should do well and it would raise the raw score needed to obtain a 5. If you can see here: [2012</a> AP Exam Score Distributions](<a href=“2012 AP Exam Score Distributions”>2012 AP Exam Score Distributions) the number of people who get 5s is low (except Calc BC, the hardest class?). On top of all that, each college can pick and choose which tests they want to accept (even the minimum score). For example, the Ivy league, with the exception of Cornell, only accepts 5s and 4s in math. Most only accept math, science, and english subjects. No one says that the school has to accept a score. AP classes are great because they allowed for smarter students to work ahead and not get bored as well as let them save a few bucks (actually a lot) in college tuition. Sure there are people who get around the system, but its a fundamental perfect idea and its executed fairly well as well.</p>
<p>The distribution of scores on AP tests likely has a lot to do with the self-selected test takers. Calculus BC has a high percentage of 5 scores because it attracts the top students in math. Meanwhile, some of the APs that are widely seen as easier ones have lower score distributions, perhaps because the not as good students choose them over those which are widely seen as harder ones, or because some high schools routinely offer them to non-prodigy freshmen and sophomores.</p>
<p>^ also they have taken most of the test before the year before in AB</p>
<p>Not all BC course/test takers took AB the year before. In some high schools, BC is offered as a one year course for students who have just completed precalculus (just like in the old days).</p>
<p>either way…50% of BC test takers earning a 5 of the AP is really good</p>
<p>For the colleges that accept AP course credit, if a high school student takes enough AP classes, will s/he be treated as a transfer student at those colleges? If not, why not?</p>
<p>Bay, not typically. Not if the courses were completed prior to high school graduation.</p>
<p>And I’m not sure why not - but I’m glad they DON’T treat them as a transfer. Some schools and colleges don’t take transfer students. And coming in as a transfer would also knock a kid out of freshman scholarships opportunities.</p>
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For the colleges that accept AP course credit, if a high school student takes enough AP classes, will s/he be treated as a transfer student at those colleges? If not, why not?*</p>
<p>Because the courses are used for high school credit also, I imagine.
It seems to be a disadvantage to be considered a transfer student- for admissions & for financial aid /scholarships.</p>
<p>I have known students who have taken enough AP & running start classes so that they are essentially a junior when they start college, but depending on the school those classes will count as elective credits, count as pre- reqs but not fulfill distribution requirements & allow them to take higher level classes or they count as fulfilling the college graduation requirement.</p>
<p>It depends on the student & the school which way they want to use them.
Or not use them.</p>
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<p>Typically, potential college credit (whether AP, IB, or actual college courses) earned before high school graduation does not cause a student to be viewed as a transfer student by most colleges. But check each college’s policy to be sure.</p>
<p>Bay,
The best benefit of the AP credit, even if they repeated courses, what that they were identified as in a class ahead of their actual class (ie listed as a soph when a frosh) and got to register for classes with the higher class.</p>
<p>Thanks for info on practices, but I still wonder about the rationale for not treating such students as transfers.</p>
<p>Sounds like the above posts do answer your question, Bay. AP will give students credit for courses taken in HS, but are not considered an actual college course/experience the way dual enrollment would.</p>
<p><strong><em>ETA</em></strong> Maybe to be a transfer one must first have been admitted to another college?</p>
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<p>I think there would be a negative reaction to treating them as transfers. Most want to enter college as freshmen.</p>
<p>Moreover, unlike students who are planning a transfer, they may not necessarily have taken the correct sequence of courses to enable them to graduate on time. </p>
<p>For example, my daughter entered college with 30 credits (a full year’s worth) from AP courses. So perhaps, in the system you’re suggesting, she should have been considered a sophomore, transferring in. </p>
<p>Now consider what would have happened if she had wanted to major in chemistry. Majoring in chemistry requires students to take a four-year sequence of full-year chemistry courses. Each year’s work is a prerequisite for the next. </p>
<p>But what if the college doesn’t accept AP Chemistry as a substitute for the first-year course? Or what if the high school doesn’t offer AP Chemistry or the student didn’t take it? In either case, she would have a problem.</p>
<p>A college student who is planning to transfer and who wants to major in chemistry would make sure to take the appropriate chemistry courses as a freshman. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the same sort of advance planning from high school students taking AP courses.</p>
<p>Good points, Marian.</p>
<p>As I mentioned, my s’s were considered, on the school’s books, as having sophomore standing when they were entering freshmen, given the credits they had for APs. That said, they always identified with their entering class and did not consider themselves a class ahead, except, as I mentioned, when it came to class registration :)</p>
<p>We did start getting graduation info/materials a year early (moreso for s#2) but despite the more than necessary number of credits, he had to complete all the requirements for his major to graduate with his class.</p>
<p>Bay–every college we looked at classifies AP or DE classes as “college classes taken in high school”. It is an important distinction because transfer students are treated differently for enrollment AND for aid, especially merit money. One school our kids applied to mistakenly listed them as transfer students and were awarded the top transfer student merit award of $10,000. When DS called to correct that the merit award was actually $18,000. That is a BIG difference. There are also other scholarships that they would not be able to apply for if they were transfer students, which they really are not, even though they will have upwards of 30 credits–if the school accepted them, which most of them will not–but that is another thread :D.</p>