<p>Also excellent point, Steve.
And apologies, I believe dual enrollment classes are considered differently than early college, where the student is fulltime in a college setting for the last 1-2 yrs of HS, though I am not 100% sure about this.</p>
<p>Bay, for the same reason dual enrolled students aren’t transfers. They have never been admitted to a college in a degree seeking program.</p>
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<p>I know the presence of AP *courses *on S’ transcript helped him with the “rigor” factor, but I am sure he didn’t report his AP test scores to any colleges, certainly not the ones from senior year since those AP exams were taken long after he’d been accepted to the college he chose. (and he was granted college credit and sometimes higher placement for all of his APs but this happened just a month or so before college began)</p>
<p>I have only heard one time of a student’s admission depending on AP scores, that was for a local student who applied to the U of Edinburgh and was conditionally accepted. He needed a 4 or 5 on his APs to be officially accepted. Two other local students got into Edinburgh without that condition. I thought it was a European thing, perhaps, to use AP test scores for admissions decisions. No?</p>
<p>^ A few test-flexible colleges will now accept AP test scores in lieu of SAT or ACT. For example Bryn Mawr will accept 3 SAT Subject Tests and/or AP test scores in lieu of the ACT or SAT Reasoning Test if:
- one is in math or science
- one is in English, history, languages, arts, or social sciences
- the third is in any subject of the applicant’s choice.</p>
<p>NYU’s test-flexible requirements are similar.</p>
<p>I’m skeptical of test-flexible standards, though. It’s great for applicants who test well on subject-specific tests but don’t test as well on the SAT or ACT, but it seems to me its main effect will be to allow test-flexible schools to inflate their reported SAT/ACT medians. because only the applicants with strong SAT/ACT scores will submit those scores.</p>
<p>I would like to see more colleges accept AP test scores as an alternative to SAT Subject Tests. </p>
<p>Often, taking both tests in the same subject seems like a waste of time. (This is especially true for U.S. History, where it’s basically the same test, except that the SAT Subject Test is multiple-choice only.)</p>
<p>It’s even more of a waste of time when a student in an IB diploma program takes THREE tests – one for the IB diploma, one to fulfill the Subject Test requirement for admission to some colleges, and one because AP generally gets you more college credit than IB–especially IB SL. My IB daughter took three Spanish tests in one month (IB SL, AP Spanish Language, and the SAT Subject Test), which seems absurd.</p>
<p>And allowing AP tests as an alternative to SAT Subject Tests would expand the number of subjects in which students could submit scores. Right now, for example, there’s no SAT Subject Test in economics, even though economics is a perfectly respectable academic subject. It would be nice if students who are interested in economics could submit their AP Macroeconomics and Microeconomics scores in lieu of an SAT Subject Test score.</p>
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<p>Yes, I understand that AP credit is earned before high school graduation. My point is, if AP courses are considered to be of equal quality to the courses offered by a particular college, what difference does it make when categorizing a student as a transfer vs. regular applicant, whether the student had a high school diploma or not at the time he took them? </p>
<p>Perhaps a better way to ask it is, why is an applicant who took 30 college credit hours at another college treated differently than an applicant who took 30 college credit hours in high school? </p>
<p>I’m trying to get at whether there really is a different (lesser) value placed on AP Chem vs. Jr. College Chem, and if so, why is the credit the same, and if not, why can’t the Jr. College student apply as a freshman if he wants?</p>
<p>Marian - Northwestern does not require SAT II’s, and when my son called Admissions, he was told that if he did well in class and scored high on AP courses, then don’t bother with SAT IIs - They were only recommending SAT Iis for kids that fell down in grade or AP test, and wanted to prove they knew the subject.</p>
<p>So, even though offically they don’t require APs, they do look at them. So, AP still not a scam. I wonder if the author of the article linked to in the OP did his homework in depth on the subject and knows this.</p>
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<p>Bay, that’s a really interesting question. Thanks for poking at it to bring the discussion to this point.</p>
<p>From my California-centric viewpoint, students who start at a CC and then transfer to a four-year college are often using that path to save money. They wouldn’t be interested in starting over as freshmen. </p>
<p>There are also the students who didn’t do well academically in high school, but then catch fire in junior college. It’s possible for them to transfer as juniors at the end of CC. Would some of them want to apply to a four year school as freshmen after going through two years of CC? On the one hand, admissions odds might be better when applying as a freshman rather than a transfer. Financial aid might be better, too. On the other hand, you’re committing to six years of undergrad. Expensive, time consuming, and probably not attractive to many, if any.</p>
<p>The students who I’d think get hurt the most by the “CC students have to be transfers” policy would be students who take some CC classes during a gap year (or years).</p>
<p>SlitheyTove,</p>
<p>Bay makes a good point, because in practice there is no difference.</p>
<p>My D3 graduating from high school will have 59 hours in a “general” track, but those classes won’t all apply to her 4 year degree, and there are definite consecutive classes that have to be taken. So she would have to enroll starting with her freshman year track anyway, and likely still spend 3-4 years to get her degree just because of how things “work”.</p>
<p>D2 is technically a junior. She had a bunch of hours from high school. She’s a 1st semester sophomore in practice, but has enough hours to be classified as a junior. Therefore she gets a better shot at housing, can move off campus, etc. but she still has 2 1/2 years to go to finish.</p>