<p>^ I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Long answer standardised tests are common in other parts of the world, so I don’t think it’d be that difficult. My issue with the SAT I only testing maths and English is that it ends up weighting those two subjects unfairly in admissions (a student good at Maths and English doesn’t have to take SAT IIs in French and History, but a student good at French and History usually has to take the SAT I).</p>
<p>Anyway, this is really just a matter of opinion, so never mind.</p>
<p>To mapletree7:
What in the world gave you the impression that the AP Physics C courses are supposed to replace the entire introductory physics curriculum? The classes are clearly labeled “Mechanics” and “Electricity and Magnetism,” which corresponds to 2 of the 3 introductory physics courses that physical science and engineering majors take. What you’re describing is covered in a 3rd class, which the equivalent is not currently offered by the college board.</p>
<p>Edit: And what makes you think college courses don’t skip topics as well?
Look at the calculus based introductory sequence [url=<a href=“404: File Not Found - Campus Catalog and Archives | CSUF”>404: File Not Found - Campus Catalog and Archives | CSUF]offered</a> here<a href=“a%20university%20located%20close%20to%20where%20I%20live”>/url</a>
(look at 225-227)
In the three entire semesters of intro physics offered, they don’t cover topics such as thermodynamics either.</p>
<p>I’m in an AP Government course. We’re prepping for our Virginia State We The People competition tomorrow. We haven’t done Government work in like two months. And when we were, it was no different than a normal awesome easy history class.</p>
<p>Well, I don’t know. My HS’s AP teachers are definitely competent… so I guess it all depends on the school. In either case, it would be bad to undermine the efforts of students who have taken the AP test.</p>
<p>the classes themselves can be great for their rigor (depending on the teacher), but the exams are silly really. I’m someone who prefers standardized tests- they’re my strength. but all of Collegeboard is a scam. their exams aren’t well made. not to mention that no one actually believes it’s a “nonprofit.”</p>
<p>Actually, after some more thought I found I agree with this. The College Board is a nonprofit organization and reaps large profits from AP tests - why can’t they use these profits to hire a few graders? I guess the SAT I tests only math and English because these are the basic schools a high-school graduate would possess.</p>
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<p>The third sequence usually covers diffraction, interference, relativity, and modern physics. What about waves? AC circuits? Damped SHM? Mutual Induction? Dielectrics? These should be on the AP Physics C exam, but aren’t.</p>
<p>The college you cited probably relegates basic thermodynamics to a formal thermodynamics course, which is not representative of colleges as a whole.</p>
<p>Hmm, do you think Dartmouth will stop expecting that just about all their applicants take multiple AP/IB courses, too? Lol as if.</p>
<p>I don’t think AP courses are a “scam”. The vast majority of colleges still give college credit, and they cost WAY less than a college class would. Many school districts pay the exam fees for students, so it is free.</p>
<p>I agree they could be better. But they help a student get into college, save money, and graduate on time, and they’re not a scam.</p>
<p>I just wish the curriculum was a little better and the teachers all had to abide by the same curriculum for their subject so a kid in arizona isn’t getting a super difficult apush class while the kid in vermont taking the same class is just coasting by.</p>
<p>It depends… Some people–such as engineers at certain schools or so LOVE the APs.
These are courses that I would have to take in college for GE requirements if I didn’t have APs:
World History, US History, US Government, Freshman English, an Art class, a language class, 2 other various social science classes, a Biology class, a humanities class, Calculus I and II, and Chemistry. The last two are great to take the actual course, but otherwise I don’t want to take too many courses outside of math and science :)</p>
Well, this doesn’t really have to turn into a debate about what is covered in a standard introductory physics course sequence (hint: there isn’t a standard sequence), but if you look through the course catalogs of various colleges you’ll find more often than not that the third course is devoted to topics such as waves and optics, among other things. Look at an intro physics textbook’s table of contents (the main texts used are “Physics for Scientists and Engineers,” “Fundamentals of Physics,” and “University Physics”) - you won’t see things like waves in the classical mechanics section. Besides, you still overlook the fact that professors can and do skip topics in their courses - so your statement that AP Physics C is a “poor joke imitation” clearly is incorrect as there exist college courses that do the same thing (and they are not rare occurrences). Here’s another example: the introductory classical mechanics course at the university I attend skipped the topic of power (and yes, there is a section on it in classical mechanics portion of the textbook), which cannot be considered even a remotely obscure topic for introductory physics in contrast to the ones you listed. You can look at the powerpoints [url=<a href=“EEE+ Home | UCI”>EEE+ Home | UCI]here[/url</a>] if you don’t believe me.</p>
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That’s what the AP course audit is for. Anyways, both kids end up taking the same test in May, and the credit is determined by the test, not the course.</p>
<p>Edit: And all of this has little to do with the terrible arguments used in these articles. No one here has yet tried to justify how Dartmouth can deny credit for the entire AP and IB curriculum based on some students’ performance on an exam taken months after the AP Psychology exam’s administration.</p>
<p>You are, of course, right. However, AP Physics C is supposed to be able to substitute for an introductory mechanics/E&M course at any typical college, and we shouldn’t assume that every college chooses to omit these so-called obscure topics. And a 5 on the AP Physics C mechanics test lets you skip mechanics courses that do cover these topics!</p>
<p>If you look at Fundamentals of Physics (for example), waves and sound are listed in the same section as the other parts of classical mechanics. And none of this explains why something like damped SHM is omitted. </p>
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<p>Remember your arguments concerning AP Physics C? They’re all based on courses at typical colleges. An introductory physics sequence at Dartmouth will necessarily cover every “obscure” topic I listed, and certainly wouldn’t omit a topic like power. In fact, they might go into even more depth than that, which justifies removing AP credit for physics, at least.
I can’t claim to know much about psychology, but it is possible that the AP version of the course isn’t as rigorous as Dartmouth’s own.</p>
<p>I believe we’ve gotten far off track here. The topic was not “Is an AP course equal to or better than it’s equivalent college course?” it was “Are AP classes and exams a scam?”</p>
<p>Even if AP classes don’t cover absolutely everything that there is to cover, it’s not a scam. It’s better than regular, it’s better than honors, and I’d even go so far as to say that it’s better than IB because the students have more flexibility in schedule and can finish what is often a 2-year course in IB in 1-year in AP.</p>
<p>As far as I’m concerned, AP classes will give you a better education and they have the potential to save you a lot of time and money. If you want to debate whether or not every AP class should be given college credit at every university and what credit each AP class should correspond to, you’d probably be better served by making another thread and discussing it there.</p>
<p>In response to an early post, I go to a big university. Only courses where I haven’t had a prof. teach are in labs. I guess it varies by school, though.</p>
<p>Anyway, AP’s are free. In order to get credit you need to take the test. In order to PASS the test you need to know the material to a sufficient level. AP tests for me were more difficult than their equivalent courses in university.</p>
<p>Not a scam at all, especially if your school is paying for it.</p>
<p>I honestly see no reason to complain about this…</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s possible to cover everything that might be covered in all of the introductory physics courses across the country - what’s important is whether the compromises made are acceptable. Keep in mind that your argument can go both ways - taking intro physics can also let you potentially skip topics covered in AP Physics C! Besides, most colleges have no problem accepting community college credit, and the topic outline for those courses do not necessarily align perfectly with the 4 year school - are you going to criticize community colleges as well? And in the Fundamentals of Physics that I’m looking at (9e), there is a Part 1 and a Part 3, which is what I consider corresponding to classical mechanics and electricity and magnetism. Part 2 isn’t really a classical mechanics section (for example, I don’t see how thermodynamics fits under any reasonable definition of classical mechanics). And even if so, you still have to explain how the other textbooks divide their sections as they do.</p>
<p>“Remember your arguments concerning AP Physics C? They’re all based on courses at typical colleges”
Exactly. It was a reply to your post, where you mentioned “a college class,” not “a Dartmouth college class.”
However, the reasoning that you use is not the same as that used by the articles, and it doesn’t justify how credit for every single AP and IB class is rejected, as your arguments pertain to 2 classes.</p>
<p>People keep saying this and it’s just not true. It costs money to take an AP exam. Some schools can afford it and pay for it. Other’s can’t and don’t. Some schools can’t afford to even offer AP courses, meaning anyone who wants to take the exam has to self study and then pay for the exam themself.</p>
<p>Regardless of anything else, they definitely cost money.</p>
<p>^
It’s $100, though. Which is still a lot of money for what amounts to a few pieces of paper, but some colleges charge like $1000 per credit hour.</p>
<p>^Yes, my Linear Algebra and Quantum mechanics courses would cost almost $1000 each if the college I’m taking them at wasn’t “affiliated” to my high school.</p>
<p>Aldfig0,</p>
<p>I agree with your points. It’s good that many AP Physics C courses add supplementary material like AC Circuits to their courses (and in fact the one that I took covered thermodynamics, optics, and relativity as well).</p>
<p>And it is quite unreasonable for Dartmouth to deny credit for every AP/IB course.</p>