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<p>LOL! Well, GA Tech thought his classes were rigorous enough to accept them for transfer credit. </p>
<p>I guess all those kids out there DE are taking slouch courses, too. </p>
<p>OP: It is a blend of having a unusually high number of good students here, as well as some students who think that they will impress colleges by taking a high number of APs.</p>
<p>It seems like your school is unusually low with a 2 AP per year limit. I think that top schools would like to see at least 6 based on recent article from the admissions office at North Carolina. The article said that at their school, applicants do not benefit from taking more than 6.</p>
<p>That will not hurt you at most schools because usually that will not count against you if you were not allowed to take more. </p>
<p>OP isn’t asking a question they’re just annoyingly trying to convince everyone they’re right even when they aren’t</p>
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<p>It is usually neither – usually most of the AP courses are the light ones that cover over a year in high school what a college course covers in a semester.</p>
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<p>I think this is where you have the biggest misconception. A lot of homework will not do nearly as much as a tough concept. Some of the harder AP’s are those filled with tough concepts, and it’s not about the work. I took AP Chemistry, rarely had homework, and got a 4 on the AP exam feeling very comfortable with the exam and my handle on the class. Homework is not always correlated to class difficulty. This year I took 4 AP’s and only had consistent homework in one: Calc. AP CS was project based, Physics was all done in class, and Bio was 50/50 with any homework being lumped into projects, labs, or practice essays. I felt that every class gave me a full understanding of the material and I am expecting 2 5’s and 2 4’s come July.</p>
<p>My total homework for 4 AP’s on average: 45 minutes, usually covered by my free period to the point I rarely worked at home.</p>
<p>Now, if your argument is that AP classes do not represent a college class, you may have some ground to stand on. But that ground is not under your AP’s either in that case. It looks like most likely you simply have more opportunities to get a handle on the information, while the many here who take tons of AP’s catch it quick and keep moving. I would imagine that your AP’s, outside of the histories, are either covering more than required or are assigning busywork.</p>
<p>@PengsPhils at that does is prove that you aren’t getting the rigor of the course. You’re just prepping for the test. </p>
<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeek schools give the appearance of rigor so their kids will get into better schools. Still not answering the question.</p>
<p>@yayitsme123 Feel free to excuse yourself from the forum. I wanted to start a discussion so you can weasel yourself out if you find me so annoying.</p>
<p>Most of my APs do not give homework, I did not study for any of the exams, and i felt very comfortable taking them. I also got an easy 5 on lang last year, took three exams this year. Although, I have never really studied for tests… I still have a 4.0 lol</p>
<p>Other posters are correct in that there is a difference between tough critical thinking assignments and lots of output busy work. For example, the math program my ds used for high school and calculus equivalent math only had a few math problems assigned per week vs 50 plug and chug typical textbook problems daily. He was expected to derive the formulas, not simply use them. He would write multiple page long proofs for one single problem. </p>
<p>Much2learn is correct in that if your school only allows you to take 4 APs that would be considered the most rigorous load for your school. It does not mean that other students, however, are not taking more rigorous loads than that and it is simply false to assert that their school work is inferior to your own.</p>
<p>Here is an example of what some of the students are doing in just one of the top high schools in the country:
<a href=“http://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/math-cs/math/docs/Math%20FlowChart14-15notnew.pdf”>http://www.tjhsst.edu/research-academics/math-cs/math/docs/Math%20FlowChart14-15notnew.pdf</a>
Here are the stats for APs for kids from this school
</a></p>
<p>That pass rate is not typical though. Many schools have low test pass rates. So, the data that means something is not simply how many AP classes were taken, but how many were passed.</p>
<p>If you look through CB’s AP score report to the nation <a href=“http://apreport.collegeboard.org”>http://apreport.collegeboard.org</a> you will see that high percentages of students do not pass the exams. For chemistry alone, 45.5% of students scored a 1 or 2. So the constant suggestion that kids are just cramming for the exams and getting scores of 4s and 5s means statistically you would expect to see higher numbers of high scores if it were that simple. The AP English Lang only had 9.8% of students earning a 5 and English lit only 6.8%. </p>
<p>There is also a National AP scholar distinction:
. I couldn’t find a recent link, but there were 9800 students who received the award in 2007 and I imagine the number has only gotten higher in recent yrs. So there were at least close to 10,000 students then doing what you claim as impossible or just slackers cramming. </p>
<p>And, the 200-300 level classes my ds took during high school were at universities. Obviously you don’t understand how the college credit transfer system works. Your comment
makes no sense. First, universities are under no obligation to accept transfer credits from other schools unless there are matriculation agreements (which does not apply in our ds case bc we are OOS and no reciprocity agreement exists.) Ds submitted course descriptions/syllabus/textbook/lab information to dept deans for them to review to determine whether or not credit would be granted.). No university is going to give a grade of an A to give the appearance of getting their students into better schools. ??? </p>
<p>It is obvious you want to believe students are incapable of achieving more than your school offers and will simply dismiss all evidence to the contrary. You are certainly entitled to do that. But college admission officers most definitely aren’t. ;)</p>
<p>I have always wondered about whether AP classes are too easy at my son’s high school. My son took Human Geography and Physics B his freshman year, Euro, Chemistry and Calc AB his sophomore year. He made all 4s and 5s except Euro where he made a 3. This year he took Calc BC, Language, Biology, World History and US History. He hardly ever studies at home. He does have an 1.5 hour block every other day which is library media which is basically study time, I think. So, if he can make passing grades without studying, what is the deal? He says he studies more than I think. 
The high school is public and very rural, so my first guess would be that the classes are just easy, but then how does he pass unless they are doing a good job of teaching the material. I guess it is just one of life’s mysteries.</p>
<p>@KiaraInNYC </p>
<p>I only took any sort of test practice beyond the last week or so in one class of the four, this was not a prep for the test situation. Unless your argument is that was simply “prepping for the test” by learning the material, which is the point isn’t it?</p>
<p>Once again, your problem seems not to be with how AP’s are taught but that AP’s are invalid tests of your knowledge on the subject, which would take the ground from beneath you as well. Your argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on and comes off as you simply trying to validate your school’s style of AP’s to probably in some way validate the insane amount of unneeded work for yourself.</p>
<p>I will be going to college at a Top 50 US News school and getting seven classes worth of credit, almost a full year of classes. Only one of these will be in my major. I took 5 AP Math/Sciences, and will only be using one humanities credit. If I got that by simply “studying for the test”, I will gladly take that into college and feel very good about my grasp on the subjects.</p>
<p>Basically, yeah, your school does AP’s in a way that requires more work. But more work does not mean more learned. It sounds incredibly inefficient to assign homework for the sake of assigning it. The only classes where I would fully exact a near hour is AP World, US, and the other textbook heavy AP histories. It is possible that this makes up many of your AP’s, and with only five offered the two rule is a lot more reasonable. But once again, I have yet to see you bring up an argument that makes your AP study and better or worse than the AP’s who have less homework.</p>
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<p>Looks like he is a very advanced student, so how much he studies (while still doing well in the courses and on the AP tests) may not be representative of other students at the school.</p>
<p>@KiaraInNYC </p>
<p>There is more than one way to cook an egg. As others have mentioned, there is no set in stone, day by day curriculum for AP’s. Other schools lessened the homework and can very well still teach and have the students grasp the same knowledge. If they are passing the AP exam and learning the material, how is there inflation evidence?</p>
<p>Maybe it is like that in other places, but my school has many AP’s and excellent pass rates. There is only minor test prep towards the final week or two, just like any other normal class would have before the final.</p>
<p>Basically, as said before, the idea is that all that homework is not always needed, and the full curriculum is being taught if the AP tests are any indication. And if they aren’t then your beef is with AP not other schools.</p>
<p>As far as the Bronx example goes, it may very well happen somewhere, but it doesn’t mean it is incredibly common. If the students “crumbled under the pressure”, wouldn’t that mean that they did badly on the AP exam as well? If you cut material, it should reflect in the AP scores.</p>
<p>Schools are doing smarter not harder. Why assign incredibly large workloads when ideas can still be grasped in less time? College courses do cover this in half the time, so the ability for condensation is certainly there. Also, once again keep in mind that CC is self selecting to have many more of those students who take lots of AP’s. Your point of reference is very skewed if you think this represents the normal population.</p>
<p>But, this argument doesn’t seem like one that can be won. Accept your situation and realize that this, in the end, will only effect you positively. Trying to invalidate others, regardless of merit, will do nothing for you.</p>
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<p>This is the problem I have with how AP classes are taught at D’s school, too. And I fault the tests themselves as well as the schools for that. </p>
<p>For example, last year with APUSH, D got a “5” on the exam as a sophomore. A “success” story, I guess. But the school taught the course for the test, with an emphasis on basic memorization and simple explanation. The homework consisted of “study packets” that were basically fill-in-the-blank questions lifted word-for-word from the text book. There was very little analysis, discussion, or real critical thinking. Was it the equivalent of a core-course requirement at our local community college? Probably. Did the students get the same experience they would have if they had taken the course from a history professor with a passion for the subject and high expectations for university-level students? No way. </p>
<p>ucbalumnus - I wonder that too. Whether he is the only one doing this or whether there are bunches. I know that lots of kids take the AP courses but I don’t know how they score except in a few instances. And I totally agree with EllieMom that sometimes you can get a 5 on the exam but still not really have gained what you would have in college. Back in my day, I took the English CLEP exam and passed it so that I did not have to take freshman English in college. Even though I rejoiced, I struggled through sophomore English - did make a B, but I never learned to write until I was in the workplace. That CLEP probably didn’t benefit me.</p>
<p>EllieMom, I can see that, especially for the histories. For weak teachers, simply teaching to the test is by far an easier way to teach.</p>
<p>My kids don’t really take as many APs as DE. They prefer being on university campuses with interaction with professors and college students over taking AP classes. (We homeschool so we have the advantage of not being dependent on a school schedule or bureaucracy for permission to enroll, well other than admission to accelerated student enrollment at the university. ETA: I should specify that my kids do the vast majority of DE at universities, not CCs. Our CCs are definitely not on par with the universities.)</p>
<p>Our high school has a cooperative dual enrollment program with the local community college and it is a joke. The courses are watered down. The kids are good smart kids but not the top kids. Some of the better colleges in our state will not accept credit from this dual enrollment program because they have figured out that the students are not well-prepared. It is always something!!!</p>
<p>If the tests aren’t reflective of a college class knowledge, then thats on the CB. But the schools are working in their guidelines.</p>
<p>Deborahb, that is our experience with CCs as well. I get the impression that CA’s CCs are much better than we have witnessed. We have lived in 3 different states while our older kids have been in high school and definitely have not been impressed. We have a disabled HFA adult child and he took lots of classes at 2 different CCs and out of all the classes he took, only one was on par with an actual college level experience. My 12th grader only took classes at universities. </p>
<p>You are definitely correct that it is always something. I am thankful for homeschooling bc a definite advantage to homeschooling is being able to seek out the best possible resources for every class choice. </p>
<p>@KiaraInNYC, I also think that you are making a lot of unfounded assumptions. I took 5 AP courses in my senior year and I usually had 2-4 hours of homework per night. I did a lot of ECs and volunteering because my life August through May was pretty much school, homework, and extracurriculars. I usually got home around 5, did homework until 7, ate dinner for an hour and then did homework from 8 to 9 or 10. I went to bed at a 11 pm. I slept about 6 hours a night. I was tired a lot. (During marching band season, I didn’t get home until 8 or 9 - but we had to do 1.5 hours of homework before band practice and I finished the rest at home). I also volunteered on the weekends. “Time to be a child” was usually during the summers. When you’re in school, your job is school.</p>
<p>But no, not every AP class can assign 1 hour of homework per night. By that logic, every college class should assign 1 hour of homework per night, but having actually graduated from college I can assure you they do not (not even at Columbia, where I am currently a grad student). Having taken 7 AP exams, I’m also going to say that it is not possible to “cram” for these exams. No, you can’t get a 5 on the AP English language or literature exam just by being a good reader and writer; those exams test very specific elements of English literature and language that can’t be learned by simply reading novels and writing well. Also - with all due respect - given that you are still a high school student, I don’t think you’re qualified to make claims about what is a “rigorous” AP class versus an “AP lite” class.</p>
<p>But let’s assume you’re right, and that your school is one of the few schools in the country that teaches high-level AP classes. Well, that may be akin to a BA from Harvard compared to, say, a BA from Georgia State University. You still get a BA - just one school is more rigorous than the other. In fact, the GSU student and the Harvard student may end up at the same graduate school.</p>
<p>* Because I don’t think it will be fair that colleges will look down upon me and my school for having few APs when they are actually taught at a level that exceeds that of the typical high school that has 15-20 AP courses.*</p>
<p>One of the many terrible things about life is that it’s not fair. There is little objective way that colleges can compare grades across thousands of different high schools. It’s just a fact of life. The best thing you can do is do well in the classes you can actually manage.</p>