Are boarding schools in decline ?

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>Well we know the statistics. The once strong connections between boarding schools and ivy league universities are dying. </p>

<p>50 years ago if you got into Hotchkiss you were virtually assured a place in Yale. Hotchkiss was the top feeder school to Yale at the time. 30 years ago around 20 students from the graduating class went on to Yale. Today around 5 go on to Yale.</p>

<p>And the one time greatest feeder school to Yale is not alone in this, Andover, a fellow feeder school to Yale is also suffering.
And we see this same trend everywhere from Andover to Exeter. </p>

<p>70 years ago 70% of Andover's class went on to Yale. Today barely ten do. When scaled by size of the student body this is essentially identical to Hotchkiss' enrollment at Yale). </p>

<p>And the same thing is true with Exeter and Harvard. </p>

<p>Also the current recession has hit these school hard. I know some schools have lost over 100 million dollars. Schools have probably lost between 20 and 35 % maybe more, not less. </p>

<p>Does anyone have the exact figures on how much these schools lost ?</p>

<p>What's going wrong ??</p>

<p>I know in some school like Hotchkiss many kids get into the ivies but choose to attend LACs instead (because they like the smaller feel of LACs) so that hurts their matriculation rate numbers. </p>

<p>But the fact still remains to be asked whats up with these numbers ??</p>

<p>Furthermore do these numbers even matter ?? Like I said people are now choosing LACs over the IVIES (I am true believer in a Harvard education , so i don't see why you would do that but people do). Why ??</p>

2

<p>I think there is a very simple answer to this. 60 or so years ago, elite colleges were more like country clubs in that money and connections got you in as opposed to academics and merit. The same could be said of boarding schools sixty years ago, they were much much more based on connections and there were much fewer scholarships. These schools are no longer country clubs =)</p>

3

<p>Here's an earlier thread with the title: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/334557-boarding-schools-long-term-decline.html?highlight=decline%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/334557-boarding-schools-long-term-decline.html?highlight=decline&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I would argue that you can't use Ivy admissions to prove a decline. Before the '50s, elite colleges often had their own entrance examinations. Prep schools would "prep" their students to pass these tests. When the colleges turned to the SAT to measure aptitude, rather than achievement, that was a huge blow to the prep schools.</p>

<p>The expansion of financial aid also plays a role. Back in the '50s, I believe scholarships were awarded for merit. There were not many students who were able to win one of these scholarships. Most college students had to pay tuition, which served to limit the number of students who could plan to attend college. Such fortunate students were much more likely to attend a good prep school than a local public school.</p>

<p>Thus, it's not that the boarding schools declined, when you try to look back 50 to 70 years. The world changed around them, and vastly expanded the number of high school students who could attend college.</p>

4

<p>Interesting post.</p>

<p>I don't think BS are in decline -- indeed I think the "new" FA will revitalize BS by attracting bright, hard working students who will in a decade be donating $ to the BS.</p>

<p>I am a firm believer in LAC. I'd pick a LAC over an IVY an day. BS, expecially those with the Harkness teaching, set an expectation for learning. A learning method that is NOT structured as IVY -- after BS small discussion classes how many of these kids want to attend large lectures and TA classes?</p>

<p>I believe it is the type of student that has changed and that has effected the matric. rate at the ivies.</p>

5

<p>I think that the world is just evolving into a much more diverse place.</p>

<p>The fundamental elements of a 'good school' are changing and becoming, again, more diverse.</p>

<p>We need to look at the demographic, and the fact that the world has changed greatly in the past 60, 70 years. Just because the world is changing and growing doesn't mean we can deem the changes a 'decline'. </p>

<p>A good education is burgeoning new outcomes, not just 'success'.</p>

6

<p>How do you measure decline? 50 years ago how hard was it to get into Andover? (Hint: George Bush went there).
When I went to BS approximately thirty years ago, it was starting to get tougher, particularly for the top schools, but I suspect even the top schools took 35-40% or more of the applicants.
Now what are the acceptance rates of places like Andover, Exeter, Choate, Deerfield, SPS, and Hotchkiss? Between 15-25%. And they're all getting a huge influx of very talented and hard working foreign kids.
BS in decline? I would argue that the students that go there are smarter, harder working, more well rounded and accomplished and more diverse than at any time in history.</p>

7

<p>This is a very interesting question. I think part of the perception of decline may come from the fact that it's much more fashionable in today's generation of parents to keep high school kids at home through high school. This fashion has been particularly pronounced in Manhattan, where anecdotal polling of friends indicates to me that many multi-generational boarding school families are now choosing to finish secondary education in the city. Outside of New York, the real problem boarding schools face is their exorbitant cost. When I went to boarding school in the seventies its cost was but a marginal item on my upper middle class parents' budget; today that has changed dramatically. With the soaring costs of boarding schools, I am now paying close to a 100,000 dollars a year to educate my two kids. That's a hefty chunk of change. </p>

<p>The problem is that schools which are committed to financial aid have tended to focus that aid on the demographic that they most want, which is the poor and lower middle class. This has increased the financial pressure on families that are upper middle class but who nonetheless find 100K a big expense for high school education. Thus the change in the popularity is related to two specific issues: fashion, in New York, and among the super rich, on the one hand, and simple economics on the part of the upper middle class in the rest of the country.</p>

<p>I fear that the current economic crunch is going to have a devastating effect on enrollments next year, further pushing boarding school into an ever declining demographic niche.</p>

8

<p>Actually, I have heard that applications are up this year, as parents are concerned that cutbacks in the public schools will affect the quality of their children's
experience. I predict, though, that a greater percentage of full pay students will be accepted. We have seen this already this year in succesful early decision applications to college of full pay people.</p>

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<p>Biohelpmom,</p>

<p>Where is the evidence that full pay applicants were favored in college ed this year?</p>

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<p>Just anectdotal evidence from our friends. And an admissions representative from a well known LAC who was overheard saying "It''s a great year for full pay students!" My kids are not in that category, so will not be applying early anywhere. However, we are very grateful for the families and foundations who fund the schools, both prep and college.</p>

11

<p>Thank you, biohelpmom.</p>

12

<p>No. Not in decline. IMO.</p>

13

<p>All I'm reading here is anecdotal evidence based on personal opinions and experiences. It seems to have become quite fashionable the last few years to claim boarding schools are in decline. Meanwhile applications continue to increase and acceptance rates decrease.</p>

14

<p>As a recent graduate, I believe they are in decline. Boarding schools' advantages with college admissions are diminishing due to the internet, colleges' desire for diversity, waning counselor influence, etc.</p>

<p>Small classes can be found at local private schools. Teachers in boarding school are great, but a little overrated; many would be surprised at the number of inexperienced teachers(some fresh out of college) these schools hire.</p>

<p>I am happy with my education, but it is hard to justify a 30,000 a year dollar price tag for it. Save that money for college or a house.</p>

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<p>Well the college matriculation numbers at the top-tier BS's are hard to argue with.</p>

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<p>and as everyone knows, you should never argue (or negotiate) with a Tierist.</p>

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<p>So many good points on here. As for college admissions---the reason going to Exeter or Hotchkiss doesn't give you a golden ticket to a good college anymore is that the world has changed--and for the better. It used to be that a reasonably bright upper middle class white kid could go to Exeter or equivalent, get decent grades, behave himself, play a sport or two, and reasonably expect an acceptance to a top tier college.</p>

<p>But today, students from all backgrounds and all parts of the world are applying for those spots, so it has become much harder. I believe that Princeton has over 20,000 applicants, and when I graduated in the 90's, they had only 11,000 applicants. (same number of freshmen spaces) Flash back to the 70's and it was even lower. It is simply harder for anyone to get in now. Colleges still love the boarding schools, especially for international studnets and low income kids, since they give these kids the support and rigor they need to succeed in an Ivy or equivalent.</p>

<p>And what Old Phillippian said about the economy hurting enrollment, I agree with. Applications are way down at most schools. Not at Andover, as they famously announced, but most other schools.</p>

<p>Unless they do something about the high tuition, middle class and upper middle class families are going to chose less expensive options and I do think there will be a lasting decline coming up.</p>

18

<p>FYI: I think a day school in New Haven (Hopkins) is the top feeder to Yale with 12 kids from the class of 2008 accepted. But then again I am sure some of these kids are legacies.</p>

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<p>No, not necessarily. Traditionally it is a well known fact that Hotchkiss was the top feeder school to Yale. This was because Timothy Dwight (a one time president of Yale) was the principal force in setting up the school, and most of the faculty and trustee's at the school were professors at Yale. As you can see in this 1913 article by the New York Times.</p>

<p>HOTCHKISS</a> SCHOOL STATUS; Not Owned by Yale, Although Faculty Members A... - Article Preview - The New York Times</p>

<p>In latter years, George "The Duke" Van Santvrood's (Hotchkiss Headmaster) legendary reputation ensured that essentially every Hotchkiss grads that wanted to went onto Yale. During some of this era the Yale Dean of Admission Howe was also a Hotchkiss Boy. Almost everyone who went to the school at the time went onto Yale - sometimes (very early on in the schools history) nearly 100% of the graduating class would go onto Yale.</p>

<p>A Hotchkiss alum would also serve as President of Yale, Griswold, which further cemented the connections between the two institutions.</p>

<p>from its founding to the late 50's if you got in Hotchkiss you were essentially assured a spot at Yale. Though I know that numerous schools such as Andover enjoyed feeder school status with Yale as well, Hotchkiss' connections with Yale went far and beyond your traditional feeder school role, almost to the point of parody. </p>

<p>In fact the late 70's the board of trustee's wanted to build the school with blue bricks to highlight this special connection Hotchkiss had for Yale of these years. HOtchkiss' school colors remain Yale Blue and White - again to signify their relationship with Yale. </p>

<p>Very few schools, if any can claim such a close connection with Yale.</p>

<p>To this day the Dean of Admission of Yale still comes to Hotchkiss personally. </p>

<p>Today however, though a good number of Hotchkiss students get accepted to Yale (probably between 20-30), these students choose to matriculate either at other universities like Princeton or LACs like Georgetown and Williams. If you look at the Hopkins matriculation list you will see that though the matriculation to Yale were high (12 as noted) only 1 or so students were sent to any of the other IVYSM schools - so this merely indicates that Hopkins students who got accepted to both yale and other IVYSM schools choose to go to Yale whereas Hotchkiss students choose to diversify. That however is not to belittle Hopkins achievement 12 students for a school of 658 is truly an achievement - however this does not indicate a preference for Hopkins students on the part of Yale, in fact the contrary seems true. </p>

<p>Anyways the main point is the era of "feeder schools" are more or less over.</p>

20

<p>No, I don't think boarding schools are in decline. Newyorker's post sums it up pretty well, I think.</p>

<p>Re: Hotchkiss</p>

<p>The</a> Hotchkiss School - Academics - College Advising - Matriculation</p>

<p>From the Hotchkiss web site: 17 students over four years matriculated at Yale. That is an average of about 4 students matriculating per year. I seriously doubt that 30 students get accepted to Yale from Hotchkiss each year, and less than 20% decide to attend. Yes, it is possible. BUT, could we have a citation, instead of some wild speculation, please?</p>

<p>Nothing against Hotchkiss, by the way, it is a great school. (And I certainly have nothing against Yale, since I graduated from there....not that I would be able to get in these days, it being so much more competitive now.)</p>