I may have worded my title incorrectly, so let me rephrase: are EC’s really what determines who gets into the best schools and who doesn’t? This seems to be the conventional wisdom that I see everywhere and it makes sense. Everybody who applies has good numbers, so how else do you determine who gets in?
A little about me: I’m currently a sophomore and, as you could have guessed, I have no EC’s or sports except for one club (leadership role pending).No competitions or awards either. No independent research or going to the local community college to take courses. However, my stats and test scores are very good. I’ve taken dual enrollment and APs in every core subject I could take them in and one of them as an elective. I plan to continue this course of study into the future since I get around 95’s in these courses (higher after they’re weighted). My overall UW GPA is around 97 and my PSAT (taken as a sophomore) was a 1380. I plan to do much better this year and to do very, very well on my SAT (1500s) and ACT (32-34). I have excellent numbers and I and many others do believe I am genuinely intelligent. As a result of all this, and the fact that now is the time I have to start thinking about college, the topic of where I’m going to comes up fairly frequently among friends and family, and many of them ask things along the lines of, “You’re going to Harvard/MIT/Yale, right?” This question always throws me because I always thought I could never get into those places as a result of my nearly-complete lack of ECs. When I reply that I don’t think I’ll go to those places because of this reason, the reaction is always shock followed by a “don’t say that” or “that’s ridiculous, you’re a genius!”. Whether they believe this or are just trying to make me feel better I don’t know, but are my doubts really unfounded? Because of my predicament, I have resigned myself to a public school (not a bad school by any means but not a top one either). Am I wrong to do this, or am I really hopeless? I’m not asking about getting into HYPSM or other schools with sub-10% acceptance rates, but can I get into places in the 25-35% range like NYU, CMU or Georgia Tech? In other words, are public schools really the best I can do?
To conclude, let me say a few more things: yes, I will apply to all the top schools, but I’m asking about what my chances would be (please don’t interpret this as a “chance me” post). Secondly, I don’t see any way I can add EC’s to my resume. I feel like it’s too late for me to get involved in things and I’ll just stick out if I do. I have tried volunteering, but it’s not my cup of tea. I wouldn’t call myself an introvert or an extrovert, but in large crowds or events I do have a sense of being overwhelmed and I kind of shut down. Plus none of my friends are interested in it. In smaller settings though like classrooms or libraries I’m much more outgoing and fun to be around. But I digress. As for other aspects of the app besides ECs and grades, I feel like I’m fairly strong. For recommendations, there are a couple teachers I have in mind who will have had me for several years and who I feel know me pretty well. For employment, I have worked (twice as a volunteer, twice in the future as a paid employee) at the same place since the summer before 9th grade and it’s another one of those places where my personality comes out. For my essay, I have a few strong topics to write about and I consider myself an okay writer. Considering all this but my lack of the holy trinity of sports, band, and clubs, am I really hopeless applying to a top school?
The “holy trinity” is a much overrated concept. At least at the most competitive schools they want to see you dedicated and passionate about something not spread thin in lots of things. While it’s wonderful if you could be an award winning athlete, musical prodigy, and leader of a high profile club, that’s not something that you need to be admitted. Instead of joining a sports team, starting to learn an instrument and joining more clubs your best bet would be to work on things related to the club you’re already in. Really expanding on whatever interests you is the way to make an app more compelling.
As far as how important ECs are, you can look at the common data sets for each school in particular. For example, Georgia Tech consider ECs “very important” (the same category GPA and test scores is in). It goes without saying that almost all the most competitive schools can afford to treat ECs as very important, Though I would be very surprised if you couldn’t find a school in the 25-35% range that considers them at least a little less important than HYPSM. The more overqualified your academics and other areas are, the better chance you have with sub-par ECs.
Having had a job is just as good, maybe even better depending on what that job is, as an EC. I have no clue what it is you do, but if there’s any room for advancement, managing people, working on some new interesting project, do it. Make the most of that job so it really shines. Like Lagging said, colleges don’t want to see you spread. One college I visited said “Depth, not breadth” was their preference for ECs.
If you still want to beef up that EC section, consider thinking outside the box. Colleges have several athletes, band members, etc apply every year. If you can make your own EC that you’d be genuinely interested in, go for it! Not sure what your skill set is, but if, for example, you were a stellar poet, then you could try to get published, start a poetry blog, etc. And just do similar out of the box thinking for whatever your skill set actually is.
Just don’t force yourself into an EC you wouldn’t want. Admissions officers can sometimes tell, particularly if they ask in an interview and you just don’t seem excited about it.
And one last thing…don’t feel pressured to go somewhere because it’s where other people think you should be. If you, yourself, are interested, then by all means go for it! But your decision should be about where you think you’ll fit.
@Scrippsie and @Keyboard1528 actually some schools view having a job as not quite on the same level of ECs. Stanford, for example, views volunteer work and work experience as “considered” which is lower than the “Very important” designation of GPA, rigor, recs, essays, etc. There are probably many schools that view jobs the same as ECs and maybe even some that view them higher. But don’t expect that without checking first!
Agreed with the sentiments of not joining an EC just for the sake of looking better. Also consider bolstering the other parts of your app schools care about. Stellar essays and great recs can go a long way.
Having a job is an EC and it’s a very respected one provided you manage to stick to it and (hopefully) progress in it.
If you like libraries, volunteer at the library.
Most people who say “you’re going to Harvard, right?” do so as a way of telling you they think you’re a terrific student, not because they have any clue what it takes to get into Harvard or because they know Harvard - it just happens to be a university outside of the state flagship that they’ve heard of.
Buy a Fiske Guide or an Insider’s Guide to the colleges or Princeton Review’s Best Colleges, and start reading. Those colleges represent roughly the top 10% of colleges in the US. Stick a post-it next to every college you like, writing your top 3 reasons why you like them (or just stick a post it). Then try to make a list of criteria that matter to you.
Improving your writing will also help a lot. It may mean taking an extra writing class, a community education creative writing class, or writing a blog, but that’s very important. Read websites like “Only connect” or “Essay Hell”.
@Keyboard1528 , you are a sophomore and it’s too late, at the tender age of 15 or 16 to do anything interesting or useful outside the classroom? If you are determined to stick to that mindset, I advise you not to apply to the very top colleges because you wont have a chance. If on the other hand, you continue to work, volunteer, do some activity outside of school that you enjoy and get involved in something other than academics, then you have a shot. I see kids all the time on CC say “my school/town has nothing to offer.” Make opportunities then. Can you mentor younger kids? Get involved in church? Volunteer at a library, hospital, food pantry, etc? There are always places looking for volunteers. Can you go to your local library and see what activities are on offer? For instance, our library has a teen book club, and teen story hours to read to younger kids. Do you like art or writing? Create something, write something, enter some online competitions, there are many. Do you like building? Build something, or do some coding, make a website, just do something other than say there is nothing you can do. You have the rest of this school year and all summer, so get busy.
Colleges do not like academic drones and routinely deny students with top test scores and grades. Even safeties will deny kids like that if they do not detect any real interest. And re your comment “are public schools the best I can do?” SMH. I don’t know if you should degrade yourself by going to a public university. As for people who say “you’re going to Harvard or MIT, right?” that is a ridiculous question. Just say you won’t know where you are going to college until 2017 at the earliest.
Are public schools the best you can do? A lot of public schools are very competitive such as UVA, UMich, UNC, the UCs, and UT Austin. I don’t think you should look down on public schools in the way it appears you are. Public schools can and will reject you for lacking outside activities competitive colleges don’t just want smart students, they want involved students. You’re a sophomore it’s not too late to join stuff if there’s nothing you’re interested in at school find something outside of school. While it’s possible for you to get into competitive schools just solely of your academics it’s very unlikely. If you find even one thing you’re really into and work on that a ton you’ll open up more doors for yourself.
“I have tried volunteering, but it’s not my cup of tea. I wouldn’t call myself an introvert or an extrovert, but in large crowds or events I do have a sense of being overwhelmed and I kind of shut down.”
Not all volunteer activities involve crowds! There are plenty of activities that you could volunteer to do that would be in a small group, or even one on one. The question is…do you want to get involved?
“Plus none of my friends are interested in it.”
So what you’re saying is that you don’t really want to do it if your friends don’t do it with you.
To address your question about the importance of ECs, you should look at the Common Data Set of each college that you’re considering to find the answer for that particular college. It will list whether certain admission criteria are very important, important, considered or not considered. Collegedata.com has a section about admissions which is taken from the common data set for each college. Most colleges in the 25-35% range seem to rate ECs as important, but not all of them. For example, Tulane University lists it as considered. http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1555#selectionOfStudents
Colleges want well-rounded students that will contribute to their college. What ways can you contribute to a college other than your intelligence? What interests do you have outside of studying? If you interview with any colleges that question will likely be asked. How will you answer it? Does your resume reflect your interests? You may already have more ECs than you think. If not, you should consider finding something you will enjoy getting involved in, even if your friends don’t do it too. BTW, it’s good that you have a job.
Finally, I agree with hssenior27’s the advice to not look down on public schools. As you begin your research into colleges you will discover that many of the public schools are very competitive.
—The top colleges can fill their rosters many times over with students who have wonderful academic stats. But most of these schools want more than people who go to school, study, and sleep. – they are also looking for people who will add to their campus life. That is where the ECs come in. And from a personal standpoint, ECs will allow you to grown in directions that cannot be done by pure academics. It is hard to believe (and a bit sad) that as a sophomore you have decided that there is absolutely nothing outside of the classroom that interests you. My S who was super quiet in HS found things that he really enjoyed and those activities made his HS experience much richer. Think outside of the box…if you like the library see if you can volunteer there, you can work if you are shy maybe work behind the scenes in shows etc. There is a whole world out there waiting to be explored.
–You are a sophomore so don’t have teachers in mind for recommendations yet. Most people use junior year teachers
.
–There are far worse fates than going to a public college.
There are definitely things that interest me, but nothing that I can put on an application. I play videogames, watch TV, browse the Internet, social media, go out, all normal stuff that I like doing. I just don’t have anything that I do in my free time which would “look good” to colleges.
Start a blog. Review videogames and TV shows.
Become a regular recapper for SpoilerTV or TV.com or Previously.TV.
Find a club, just ONE, that you like. At the high school, YMCA, town library, it doesn’t matter.
That’s your challenge, come back here in a week with the name of the clubs under consideration, and which one you’re going to join.
If you’re interested in video games look into coding basic games yourself, if you like browsing the internet then find a topic that interests you and learn more about it. Maybe you will teach yourself another language that way, maybe you find a science topic you’re interested in and enter in a science fair with it. Don’t like interacting in person for volunteer groups? Work with a local non-profit to help manage their social media pages. Really you can create your own opportunities based of what interests you.
If you’re legitimately competitive at video games then yes that’s something you can put on an app (e.g. winning tournaments, having a popular gaming channel, high national ranking).
I agree with the sentiments others are telling you: don’t look down on public schools. Kids with better grades and test scores (and ECs!) than you attend some of them. There are many great public schools and intelligent kids at them. Financially it’s often one of the better options.
If you have sub-par ECs, you can forget about getting into the very top schools like HYPSM. These schools routinely reject applicants with 4.0 GPA AND 2400 SAT/36 ACT.
" Because of my predicament, I have resigned myself to a public school (not a bad school by any means but not a top one either)."
“In other words, are public schools really the best I can do?”
In one post you’ve encapsulated everything I hate about entitlement and prestige.
If you wanted to go to a top university, or if you think you’re even of that caliber, why didn’t you do things to get to that level? Instead of doing little to nothing productive, you could have spent your four years becoming a more fulfilled person that these universities would want. The truth is, you’re not a special snowflake. There are many many students out there with even better test scores and an even better GPA who are still not accepted to a top 10. There is no one for you to blame but yourself and given the blatant condescension and “resign[ation]” you have to attending a public school, I feel sorry for the students in your classes that worked hard in their own contexts to go where you are halfheartedly matriculating to.
OP: look at this from the colleges’ point of view. Here you present yourself as “typical”-- nothing wrong with that. You’re an above average HS student for sure and you’ll be attending college one day – likely on a decent merit scholarship.
But if you’re in a selective college admissions office, they simply don’t have room to consider anyone typical. Indeed, they are rejecting thousands of “amazing” applicants with top grades/scores and superlative ECs.
There’s nothing wrong with not being amazing. But you’ve got to stop lying to yourself as if you were. It’s like complaining to the Varsity basketball coach why you were cut but you don’t dribble well, don’t shoot well and are 5’ tall.
I may be overly optimistic but I think I need to counter your pessimism. Let’s turn a couple of your statements around.
Volunteering doesn’t mean you need to directly interact with large crowds at events. For example. do you like photography? Volunteer as a photographer. You can hide behind the camera in public spaces.
You don’t need your friends to join you. If you do something you find interesting or something you simply want to try, you will find new friends.
Set up a Twitch account and then play videogames. Blog about it. If you are interested in CS, try USACO - there are open contests and training resources (and it kind of fits an introvert.) In other words, take what you have and try to find ways to expand upon it.
You’re just finishing up your second year in high school. It’s not too late. Keep in mind, activities do not have to be school-based. Over the next 18 months, try new things (because they intrigue you, not because you need a resume). You may not do well at a couple activities, and others may bore you. But that’s the point of high school and being 15,16 and yes, 17!
btw, I think sticking with one organization, first as a volunteer and then in a paid position, over four years is something colleges would like. It shows commitment and some advancement. You don’t need to have a lot of activities, you need to show what you can do with the activities you have or will have.
Last, don’t listen to these people who are saying things about HYPSM. Ignore the Common Data Set of specific schools. It’s too early to focus on any particular school or set of schools, especially if you don’t have a strong interest. Right now, focus on doing your best, both in and out of school, and find what does interest you and the rest will work out.
First of all, there are many options between state uni and the Ivies. There are medium competitive universities, liberal arts colleges, etc. You have posed a false dichotomy. And as others have mentioned, there’s nothing wrong with state schools.
GPA, test scores, essays, and recommendations are the heart of your application. ECs are more important the higher in prestige you go. But strong ECs cannot compensate for lousy GPA/test scores. So better to focus on those components first (which you have) than upping your ECs. Of course, the tippy top schools want the whole package.
As for ECs, it’s a fallacy to assume that it’s all about science/math competitions, published research papers, performing arts and club leadership. You said you have worked consistently at the same job, volunteering for the first two years. That’s an EC. You say you write - why not submit something to the Scholastic competition or to Teen Ink or start a blog? Can you bump your interests to a higher level?
Will this get you into Harvard or Yale? Probably not, but there are no guarantees for anybody, no matter how accomplished. Might you get into a top 100 ranked school? I’d say your chances are quite good.
