<p><a href=“http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/top-h1-b.jpg?7794fe[/url]”>http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/top-h1-b.jpg?7794fe</a></p>
<p>Not that large of a percentage. Admittedly, the vast majority of H-1B workers are in computers.</p>
<p>I’ve heard that a lot of “job openings” are really just there to prove that the US needs H1-B visas. These have ridiculous requirements that no one could meet with awful pay so that the company won’t get anyone to do the job. Basically, it’s an abuse of the H1-B system.
This definitely does happen. Whether or not this is to the extent that it’s killing US jobs is up for debate though.</p>
<p>
That works out to about 300,000 requests per year. That’s a lot.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How awful is awful? Is it bad enough that unemployed engineers don’t want them? Surely it must be enough to get by on if those on H1-B visas can survive on that salary.</p>
<p>Just trying to understand the dynamic here.</p>
<p>Awful as in $20-25/hr for 5-10 years experience in a very specific line of work.
I’d say that’s bad enough for unemployed engineers to go looking for greener pastures.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Awful yes, but if I was unemployed for a year and couldn’t find anything else, I’d take it. Wouldn’t you? Something is better than nothing.</p>
<p>Certainly better than nothing, but not necessarily better than a completely unrelated job in a completely different field.
For the people who are offered these jobs, it’s not a fair salary. That’s not even a fair salary for a fresh grad, much less for 10 years experience. Basically it’s an offer not meant to be taken so that “there are no qualified Americans for this job.”</p>
<p>If one can find a job in a different field, then it’s certainly a good alternative.</p>
<p>What make this salary fair or unfair? If people of equal skill and talent are willing to do the job for a visa and less money, what’s wrong with that in a capitalist society? Theoretically, if enough restrictions are put in place, couldn’t a company in the computer field take their entire operations overseas? Or can’t a foreign company just sell their products for less in this country because they have lower costs?</p>
<p>Sure, cutting corners on salaries is pretty good for the company in the short term.
The history of economics attests to how bad this is for everyone involved in the long term though. Especially the last two depressions in the US.</p>
<p>I don’t disagree it’s bad for the economy overall, but artificial restrictions seem like it’s just delaying the inevitable.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s anything inevitable about abusing a government program for cheap pennies. It’s really just unethical business practice.</p>
<p>Is it not going in the same direction as manufacturing?</p>
<p>It’s really not that simple. Some manufacture is being outsourced, but that’s a different consideration than H1-B abuse altogether.
The problem here is that H1-B visas are granted so that US companies can hire talent outside of the US if American workers aren’t qualified for the task. However, the appeal of H1-B is that the imported workers will work anywhere as an indentured servant for cheap pennies because their country of origin has even worse job prospects for trained professionals. Thus, these companies pretend that they can’t find one by posting job openings that no reasonable person could or would want. This is not to find an American engineer but to “prove” that they cannot. Once this is proven, they take a cheap foreign worker.
This is straight up abuse of the system, but the government has yet to catch on. Nothing about this is an inevitable result of manufacture because this is all dealing with jobs that could and should be done by Americans within the US.</p>
<p>Why should these jobs be done by Americans? What is unethical about a business wanting to maximize profit? That’s capitalism. The world only needs 1% of the smart people in it, not 10% (that said, we certainly don’t need the 90% of stupid people).</p>
<p>The better question would be, if these companies are truly getting what they pay for by seeking the cheapest labor, then one or both of the following should happen:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Engineering really is a job most anyone can do, so we need to get off our high horses and take lower pay, fewer benefits, and less job security (just like most other careers). The tippy top/lucky people will still be “successful.”</p></li>
<li><p>Companies that recognize the need for, and capitalize on, high quality engineered products will still look for us supposedly amazing American engineers and beat out those cheap companies every day of the week.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
</p>
<p>When Java was 2 years old, it wasn’t uncommon to see job ads demanding 10 years experience in Java. 5+ years experience demanded in Windows 2008. 3-5 years experience demanded even for a simple job of PC deployment. </p>
<p>The problem with the way that H-1B has been handled is that H-1B is now so engrained, institutionally, that firms such as Microsoft, IBM, Cisco, etc., don’t even bother to attempt to recruit domestic talent. So engineers who apply to those organizations don’t even get interviews, nevermind the opportunity to take jobs at the lower rates of pay implied by the presence of H-1B visas. </p>
<p>The other problem is that, by introducing nearly an additional million workers to the market, salaries and working conditions have been dramatically suppressed. Smart people refuse to study to enter the field. Eventually we’re left with either a workforce that is 100% foreign (ie: the case in many companies, particularly the IT departments in the financial sector), or we end up with a pile of really dumb engineers because the best and brightest studied other, better paying fields instead.</p>
<p>My DH was chatting with a colleague who has a degree in Chem E with an advanced degree in polymer Science (IIRC). He just relocated here to take a job with a sister company to my DH’s company. He mentioned to my DH that there are 40, yes 40 unfilled engineering R&D positions</p>
<p>
Really? You don’t see anything unethical about illegally using a government program to skimp on salary? Everything about that is unethical.
As for your other points, I have to say that you are extremely short-sighted. Did you know that slavery (the one that sustained the South economy for a few centuries) is actually not economically viable in the long term? Neither do the companies that rely on H1-B. Microsoft, the biggest H1-B user, is on the decline and it’s no mystery to most of us why.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s just globalization at work, isn’t it? What’s wrong with a workforce that’s 100% foreign? If I was running a company that employed engineers, or procured engineering services, I’ll take the cheaper labor force as long as it produces the product that I need. When you go grocery shopping, do you buy the more expensive brand if the quality is that same?</p>
<p>If dumb engineers can do the necessary work, then is there really a need to hire smarter engineers? Why pay more for the same services? Why <em>shouldn’t</em> the smart ones go into other fields?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If H1-B programs don’t work out well for companies, then is there really anything to worry about?</p>
<p>
Oh, they work out great in the short term. The real problem comes in the long term. Which means they will still hire plenty of H1-B workers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Right, I understand that part. However, you made a reference to Microsoft’s decline, implying that the high usage of H-1B workers is not sustainable. Wouldn’t companies learn from that if it ends up hurting them in the long run?</p>
![http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/top-h1-b.jpg?7794fe[/url]](http://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/top-h1-b.jpg?7794fe%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
