<p>janel89, I can't speak for 311Griff but I think what he's said can just apply to just about anyone. If someone gives off that attitude of "I'm smarter and better than you" I don't think I'd like to be around that person. I'm not sure if that's what Griff meant or not but that's what I got from it.</p>
<p>Girls can have all the opinions they want so long as they know what they're talking about. It's when they don't shut up about something that it gets annoying (and that applies to both girls and guys).</p>
<p>The problem itself is definitely cultural. Most guys and girls anywhere prefer the culture's definition of attractive over ugly. The problem is that, in this culture specifically, especially for young college guys, there is little or no value placed on female intelligence when it comes to relationships. Rather, the highest values are hotness, ability to have 'fun', disinterest in commitment, sexual adventurousness, etc. It's not that guys are innately "stupid" or whatever, it's that the culture teaches and reinforces the qualities that you don't like. And finding cultural deviants is very difficult, I know :)</p>
<p>I read something just on this the other day. It seems that the American culture has made women sex symbols. It was an article on MSN. More often than not guys will think there is interest from the girl when in fact there isn't any.</p>
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Girls can have all the opinions they want so long as they know what they're talking about. It's when they don't shut up about something that it gets annoying (and that applies to both girls and guys).
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<p>Yeah I agree, it applies to both girls and guys. No one likes a pretentious prick. However, it seems as though guys can get away with it much more easily than girls. For instance, a guy who goes around and is always the leader of the debate (a young, swingy Kissinger type), and yes, exudes arrogance... is actually a turn-on to most girls. But if a girl does the same thing, it's an automatic "you're out, honey, not interested," even if they know exactly what they're talking about (think of the stereotypical girl who raises her hand all the time in class, wants to be valedictorian, runs for every club position, etc. -- in every movie, "that girl" is always the annoying one -- think Witherspoon's character in Election, or Paris on Gilmore Girls, the peppy one in Grease, can't remember her name). Maybe girls need to just shed this attraction to cockiness -- or maybe guys need to lower their guard. I don't know which way it should go.</p>
<p>I know that I can get outwardly cocky at times myself, but I also know that the world would be much more ideal if every guy refrained :) The consequences of that attraction to cockiness really contributes to many problems in the world.</p>
<p>ucbhi- Oh, totally. The annoying thing is when a girl has all or most of the qualities you listed AND is smart, and is still passed up. Which may or may not have to do with pickiness, bad luck, crappy karma, whatever. But yeah. </p>
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The consequences of that attraction to cockiness really contributes to many problems in the world.
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<p>Um, no. It is the male's responsibility to control his own "cockiness" -- not the female's to alter whatever "causes" of that cockiness she does. </p>
<p>And honestly, cockiness isn't really so much the problem as the vast array of benighted people around the planet. A heavily educated, intellectual, "pompous" guy like Kerry, who understands the complexity this world, is much less of a threat than a "down to earth" George Bush, who doesn't understand the consequences of his policies. It's more so what you carry -- not how you carry it that should matter.</p>
<p>The attraction to cockiness and therefore the encouragement of cockiness in the culture is part of what fuels the value of patriarchic ideals in our society. These ideals are what gives war its glorification. War is a problem I think :)</p>
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The attraction to cockiness and therefore the encouragement of cockiness in the culture is part of what fuels the value of patriarchic ideals in our society. These ideals are what gives war its glorification. War is a problem I think
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<p>Which is a pretty far-fetched deduction. </p>
<p>First, you would have to strictly state what definition of "cockiness" you are using in this argument. Presuming that you mean it to be, say, the inability to communicate and negotiate with others, arrogance, and a feeling of superiority -- then yeah, I could see those qualities possibly playing a part in leading to wars. However, you are excluding other, posssibly much more essential factors, such as fear, economic interest, prisoner's dilemma, entangled alliances, preemptive defense needs, etc. But still, that's quite a generalization to jump from so quickly.</p>
<p>Lastly, there is really no way to tell if the "attraction to cockiness" actually encourages its continuance. And even if it could be proved that it did to some degree -- so what? The fact remains that responsibility lies with the individual to control his proclivities. I know alot of guys who are attracted to slutty girls; but that does not necessarily excuse a girl's slutty actions. (Assuming that slutty actions are an inherently deplorable thing, though I am not making that claim).</p>
<p>Funny I was going to talk about definitions whenever you responded. Considering that we are talking about male and female relationships here, I am talking about "male cockiness." In essence, everything that comes along with being the strongest, being dominant, etc. These qualities are patriarchal and these qualities are obviously being propagated through the culture. </p>
<p>Eliminating the ideal of being dominant, there is no attack for economic resources, pre-emptive 'attack' etc. It really requires you to think outside of the box, and if you choose to stay in it then of course you cannot understand the reasoning. And yes, there are examples of cultures that do not work in the same way as ours in regards to economics, wars, and politics, so it is not impossible.</p>
<p>There's no reason to discuss your second point if we do not agree on the possibility of the above.</p>
<p>Edit: If you -really- want to discuss this further, you can either start a new thread or PM me, because this post is about intelligent girls' relationships :p</p>
<p>Allie - know the feeling, know the feeling. I can just tell you that it does get a bit better. Then men find something else to be upset about, but at least it won't be your brain.</p>
<p>I'm doubly handicapped: ambitious/intelligent and not good-looking enough (or at all) to give men a reason to chase me. I've often been passed up (or dumped) for the "cupcake crew" - the harmless, sweet, unopinionated, smart-but-not-as-smart girls. The ones that I look at and briefly feel better about myself, because I know that I haven't hit rock bottom. But the men still chase them, because they are cute and uncomplicated and just need men so very much. I enjoy the company of men, but I don't need a boyfriend to get through the day. They still want the ego stroke of a cute girl who makes him feel all wanted and needed.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know what you're feeling. Been there, done that, and it does get better. Have spent my summer dating 28ish year olds, and they are a vast improvement over the 21-22 crowd.</p>
<p>An observation, based on three years of watching social interactions at MIT:</p>
<p>Most geek guys like geek girls. And vice versa.</p>
<p>If you're a geek girl who isn't lucky enough to be around geek guys, or an intelligent girl who is not a geek or some similar subculture, that can be demoralizing. Because in general, I would say that yes, many guys are threatened by intelligent girls. There are, however, many fine exceptions.</p>
<p>ariesathena- are you working in law firms as an intern? then point me to the right way (I'm in DC now too)!!!!</p>
<p>Blah. To the OP's question, yes, yes, yes. I swear. I have guy friends- nice ones at that. I think they're secure enough for me to be their friend but probably NOT enough to consider me their girlfriend as I'm more brilliant than their girlfriends (former and current). Le sigh. I've confronted them and they said there'll be someone better than them who will take me. It'll take time, it'll take time, or so they say. </p>
<p>I seriously can't wait for grad school where I can meet someone! :)</p>
<p>I, for one, think that a lot of men are intimidated by intelligent women -- especially when those women are also very physically attractive. It is no secret that many men have a predator/prey thing going on regarding "hot" women, even if they don't realize it themselves. They're more comfortable viewing these women as sexual objects than human beings. And when a woman has not just great looks but a great brain and a strong personality too back it up, it forces men to abandon their view of them as mere sexual objects or playthings. It is, pardon the term, where boners often go to die. </p>
<p>Like most of these threads, I personally feel there are a lot of misconceptions here.. People on CC tend to over-analyse these things making it all out to be more complex than it actually is.. I can't speak for the subconscious, but at a conscious level a smart girl DOES NOT intimidate a guy unless he's the sort who would struggle to put together a couple of sentences in conversation...</p>
<p>I personally prefer an intelligent girls as they are more likely to understand subtle flirting, double entendres and the like - I mean the last thing you want is to continuously have to explain one-liners to your chick!</p>
<p>But folks you are over-analysing stuff.. I've said this before on another thread, I'll say it again - it just boils down to chemistry..</p>