<p>Honors colleges really vary. D1 is in the Pennoni Honors College at Drexel. Means she took one extra honors seminar first quarter (they read apocalpytic fiction), has to do an extra project in another class this year. There is an honors dorm but she chose to live with folks in the School of Media Arts and Design instead as more compatible. Priority registration, free printing but not in place that’s convenient. They are not in the least insulated from non-honors kids and the experience is only minimally different. She’s happy anyway…!</p>
<p>drax12, you make a good point but unlike high school, the honors students are not isolated in separate classes the entire time and are not separate from the university as a whole. Many honors students take, at the most, one honors class a semester, maybe two on occasion, but honors classes tend to be supplemental electives instead of core classes as they are in high school. Core classes in subjects like English, science, and math are open to all students. Students don’t end up with a multiple tiered slate of classes- honors, AP, IB… like they do in high school. Also, in many programs, a student not directly admitted into honors from high school has the opportunity to apply while in college, and there is no entry test like there is in “AG” classes in elementary and middle school.
College students also have opportunities to socialize in non academic settings such as clubs, religious groups, music, sports and any other mutual interest. What is going to differentiate them is not their ability, but their behavior. If one student is “geeky” and studious, and the other chooses to party, then the outcome of their education is going to depend on how well they balance their academics with other activities.For students who need help, most colleges have learning and tutoring centers, TA’s have office hours, there are writing centers to help students with writing assignments. The difference is that instead of teachers notifying parents that students are in trouble, the student has to take the initiative. Colleges also have safety nets to assist high risk students such as student success programs.
I don’t see how having an honors programs hurts anyone or keeps anyone from being educated. It’s one small niche in many that a college offers. If the presence of an honors program does benefit the college in terms of ranking or reputation, and bringing more good students to a campus, then that also benefits every student there. </p>
<p>A recent NYT article decribes programs at UT Austin that assist at risk students. I’d like to see more of them and also honors colleges. </p>
<p>The honors programs at UT-Austin (Plan II) and UC Santa Barbara (College of Creative Studies) are exceptional. By no means are they “a way to soothe bruised egos when such students get shut out of their reaches or cannot afford them and have to “settle” for the big university that dozens of their high school classmates will be going to.”</p>
<p>The honors program at Pitt isn’t anywhere near as competitive for admissions, but when combined with a (competitive) generous merit award, it lures students accepted to places like Chicago. Like other honors programs, it provides a way for students to delve deeply into a subject, perhaps producing a capstone project. IIRC, everyone at Reed, Swarthmore and Princeton has to write an undergraduate thesis. It’s not the sort of thing that’s required at public universities, though it’s generally available through individual departments. Offering this via an honors college has a different flavor. Great option for some kids. </p>
<p>Like others have said: do your homework. Check out what’s really being offered. </p>
<p>One problem with honors colleges is that there is no separate Common Data Set to let you investigate what you’re getting and compare it objectively to your alternatives. Maybe the Texas Plan II has been around long enough, and subject to enough public scrutiny, that you can choose it with confidence. It’s harder to tell with some of the other programs.</p>
<p>Given that employers prefer to go to the big state schools for one-stop shopping, it may be wishful thinking on my part, but it would seem to me that being enrolled in an honors college would officially put a student in the top of the recruiting food chain.
<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704358904575477643369663352?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052748704358904575477643369663352.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection”>http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704358904575477643369663352?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052748704358904575477643369663352.html%3Fmod%3DWSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection</a>
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<p>Yes. But some “brand names” also open doors. Although ultimately, career prospects depend on the classes you took and the grades you got (a 2.5 from Harvard impresses no one, an Economics major who got D’s in math isn’t going to go too far), on the internships you did and how well you performed there, etc. </p>
<p>It makes sense to consider that this would be so, but since honors programs are very different from each other, it isn’t necessarily going to give a job advantage to a student. Many honors classes are electives, so core classes are open to all students, and all students are able to do research and study abroad. The honors designation is initially due to high school performance, but recruiters will also look at college performance. A university honors program that offers honors humanities electives, and an honors thesis, may do little for the STEM student who has taken extra upper division STEM classes in a job market for STEM students. In a university that offers strong research and mentoring, the STEM student who has accessed these opportunities and has done well may be a strong job candidate.
Schools like Penn State, Texas A&M, and UIUC are research and STEM powerhouses. No doubt they produce a lot of well trained graduates. It would make sense to think that the honors students will be at the top since they entered with the qualities that would lead to being at the top, but that isn’t necessarily true all the time. The label “honors” won’t likely mean a lot unless they put in the work in college, and other students who put in that work are likely to be noticed too.</p>
<p>So the logical question is why honors? I think the answer is “fit”. This is where an honors level student can find a niche in a large university. Honors housing might be quieter and more conducive to studying. One would hope all the dorms would be like that so that all students would study more, but we all know that there is no way to really enforce that. No matter what the topic is, an honors class allows a motivated student to learn a topic in depth in a smaller setting. The performance factor doesn’t come as much from giving honors students advantages, but by placing them in situations that they are likely to be happy in and thrive. It’s a reward for a job well done in high school, but they will need to continue to do that good job for it to benefit them in the long run. </p>
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Yes, but will paying twice as much for a private “brand name” (i.e. a school that does not offer merit aid) open twice as many doors?</p>
<p>if your family won’t qualify for merit aid, paying twice the price is definitely not worth it. However, some universities are pretty expensive OOS too (I’m thinking Penn State Shreyer, which is one of the top Honors College… but only offers a paltry $4,000 scholarship for a 45k cost of attendance OOS. Sure you can get more if you’re in engineering or science, but it’s still very little.) Making NMF is another ballgame.</p>
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Do u think Shreyer is worth it for an OOS NMF?</p>
<p>If your family has 35k for your education and doesn’t need to borrow, yes, absolutely. The opportunities these kids get are amazing. It’s like Macaulay: they are the prized students and are treated as such.
If you’re NMF, you have better financial options, since the NMF scholarship is only $2,000 a year. The thinking may be that if you are NMF, you already got another scholarship from somewhere.
Shreyer candidates are selected among admitted students. They have to apply to Honors, and thus be admitted to the university, before December 1. Only 10% applicants are selected.</p>
<p>My neighbor’s kid picked Penn State over UCB because he got into the 6-7 year medical program. She already learned her lesson with D1 doing premed at UCB. She had to pay for OOS, so what.</p>
<p>DrGoogle: what lesson did your neighbor learn?
The price for PSU OOS is steep, though. Does she feel it’s worth it and why?</p>
<p>Premed at UCB is very cutthroat. The kid didn’t end up at a medical school, rather she is CS which is very disappointing to 2 engineering parents. :D</p>
<p>Back to the question at hand - I believe that an Honors College in a large public university is a great option for a kid who wants to go to a large public university. it is not a substitute to the LAC experience. Honors College is great for STEM majors who need the breadth of course offerings of a large university, but would like the advantages that some Honors Colleges provide, like small seminar classes and priority course selection, as well as better housing choices. these advantages are particularly helpful during the first year, when he is trying to find his niche.</p>
<p>There is a website devoted to this topic <a href=“http://publicuniversityhonors.com/”>http://publicuniversityhonors.com/</a></p>
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<p>Pre-med is generally cutthroat anywhere, since students need to make very high GPAs.</p>
<p>Why would the parents be disappointed that she is a CS major? (Although a CS major can still be pre-med by taking the pre-med courses alongside.)</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, she defaulted to CS probably because of low GPA at weed out courses. I guess this kid’s dream since kindergarten is to be pre-med. Perhaps the disappointment is not to be able to achieve a goal that was set. And engineering has its up and downs, both parents got laid off before.</p>