<p>“For OSX, all you have is what Apple makes, so you’re waiting upon the progress of a single company.”</p>
<p>Apple has been delivering for a while now. If they stop executing well, then the market will turn on them.</p>
<p>This isn’t an issue for desktops, but if I bought a PC laptop, most likely I would have to pay for windows despite the fact that I’d far more likely only run Ubuntu on it. And not only that, I’d have to put some effort and perhaps extra money into ensuring that the laptop I get is 100% compatible with linux drivers.</p>
<p>Not such a bad tradeoff for macs, then.</p>
<p>Many open source developers went with Linux in the 2001-2004 time frame because it was supporting open source itself. Then a year or two later when Intel Macs came out, a lot of open source developers found that it was nice to have a Unix development environment without having to deal with hardware issues. They had to have a Mac to support the big three operating systems anyway.</p>
<p>If you need Windows and you’re a CS major, you might be able to get Windows for free from your department.</p>
<p>Okay fanboys, here we go:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Just because a bunch of MIT scientists decide they want to use Macs and struggle with compatibility issues doesn’t justify the viability of a Macbook in the mainstream consumer electronics market. What I really want to know is how many of those same computer scientists are actually using OSX for their work? The answer, more than likely, is none. If in fact they’re bootcamping, which is extremely likely, then they must truly be morons. And, it’s funny how you speak so highly of Apple and Macbooks without offering solid, sensible reasons why they’re so much better than PCs. The virus thing is ridiculous (you don’t need to know much about PCs to avoid viruses; I have personally NEVER been attacked by one thanks to a very simple and unobtrusive anti-virus program called AVG)…if OSX is your thing then fine, but I’ve used macs on several occasions (and not the shtty ones either) and see no truly distinctive qualities about the much-praised software, including iLife, Garageband, etc. The more professional proprietary versions of the software that Apple has tried to emulate far outstrip them in performance and viability. Not that this is even relevant to the mainstream consumer. In terms of the ‘visual appeal’ of the OS, Vista closes the gap anyway and imo comes out the winner (you can now make vista look like anything you want it to…hell if you’re so infatuated with Macs then you can go for that look too). The overall look of the Macbook on the outside is undeniably stylish, but who besides fanboys and the most shallow of consumers is buying a notebook with that in mind? Notebooks are meant for functionality and exterior design does not add any functionality to a product. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>First of all, my username is something of a misnomer as I have since transitioned onto the engineering track (specifically, computer engineering…check my posts if you don’t believe me) and will be pursuing that as a freshman at Penn this Fall. My experience in programming (proficiency in Java, working on C++), though limited, still eclipses that of the average computer user. Additionally, I have been vehemently opposed to consumer desktops since the age of 13 and am even now writing this post on a computer I built and overclocked on my own (specs: OC’d from 2.40GHz to 3.40 GHz Q6600 quad core, 4GB DDR2 RAM OC’d to something in the neighborhood of 900 MHz bus speed, and dual SLI 9800 GTX video cards with OC’d core, memory, and shader clocks). Your phd buddies are either using their macbooks for personal use (which you conveniently failed to mention) or bootcamping like buffoons to avoid compatibility issues or, worst-case-scenario here, are in fact pathetic excuses for ‘software engineers’. Much of the serious computer work in the realm of software engineering requires a powerful computer anyway and this can normally only be achieved by paying out massive amounts of money to proprietary companies like Dell (XPS), Falcon NW, Voodoo (HP), Alienware, etc or custom-building your own PC for FAR less. In any case, I hope I’ve made it clear to you that you should not infer anything about anyone, as that was a blantanly agrigious faux pas on your part. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow I was actually trying be as condescending as you Mac fanboys in case you didn’t get that…I guess it worked? So yeah thanks. By the way, I’m personally not advocating the cheap, sub-$1000 junk PCs that are manufactured by toshiba, dell, and the like. I’m talking about the real deal, usually priced in the $1000 to $1500 range. Want an example? Here’s a notebook of similar size, but better stats than a Macbook (faster processor specifically) and has a retail price of $1299. [ASUSTeK</a> Computer Inc.](<a href=“http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=2820&l1=5&l2=131&l3=769&l4=0]ASUSTeK”>http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=2820&l1=5&l2=131&l3=769&l4=0)
A similarly configured Mac, which still has the slower 2.4 GHz processor (granted that it is Penryn, for whatever that’s worth), will run you up $1744 (base price of Macbook 2.4 GHz plus 4GB RAM and hardrive upgrades). You save $445 and have the added bonus of the kind of upgradibility that is sorely lacking from the Macbook. As you move into the MacbookPros, the price difference between it and a similarly configured (or better) PC becomes even more substantial.</p>
<p>Personally, the search for a suitable notebook computer has led me to the point where I’ll probably purchase a barebones laptop and configure it myself, as I truly detest Apple (and even moreso the fanboys) and don’t feel like buying a sub-par PC from a company like dell, hp, etc.</p>
<p>It’s you who doesn’t know **** about computers. They are most definitely not bootcamping.</p>
<p>Serious programming and development is done in a Unix/Linux environment. Anybody who knows anything about compters knows that.</p>
<p>And guess what OSX is built on? Unix. Unix (and most Linux) code works perfectly on OSX.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your math is obviously faulty, especially since nobody who knows jack will ever upgrade the RAM directly from Apple. You just buy the standard 2gb version, buy some OEM RAM, and swap it in.</p>
<p>Sounds like you’re the one who’s a fanboy, blindly defending in the face of rational and logical arguments.</p>
<p>When will the next mactop/book/pro/etc (mac laptops) refresh be? Also when does the deal where students get a free iPod w/ purchase of mactop start?</p>
<p>Nobody can definitively state the next refresh, but there’s a good buyer’s guide which tells you how soon to expect a release and if it is a good time to buy. [Mac</a> Buyer’s Guide: Know When to Buy Your Mac, iPod or iPhone](<a href=“http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/]Mac”>http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/)</p>
<p>Not sure about the deal… it usually starts around August (for “back to school” shopping) I think.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I see. A university newbie.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>So you’re suggesting that the average consumer build their own systems?
You’re talking like a car mechanic. Not as an engineer that designs cars.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>My coworkers use their Mac Pros and MacBooks for personal and
engineering purposes. About half have multiple patents. Several of us
are rather wealthy from many years in the software industry.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I’ve been a professional software engineer since the 1980s. You are so
full of it that you don’t know that you are full of it. You’re worse
than a premed student. You’re a CE student that thinks that he knows
something but is utterly, utterly clueless.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And UNIX was literally just introduced to Macs with Leopard…until now, they never supported it (I will concede I never noticed the addition of UNIX to Leopard b/c I don’t waste my time fondling Apple in the hopes that it will stimulate a positive output). And, what’s OEM RAM gonna save you? About a whopping $30-40, my point still stands. I’m not going to bother with the calculation of barebones notebook prices, but if all the parts were OEM’ed, the PC would come out the HUGE winner. You’re the only the fool in this argument.</p>
<p>Why bother wasting money in a recession? Buy a PC. And save.</p>
<p>“And UNIX was literally just introduced to Macs with Leopard…until now, they never supported it (I will concede I never noticed the addition of UNIX to Leopard”</p>
<p>No. Apple bought Next in 1996. Mac OSX was first shipped in 2001. It has been shipped with all new consumer desktops starting in 2002.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>■■■■■, I have a separate account on this website that claims I’m a rocket scientist and I regularly make claims related to aerodynamics in the ‘Transportation’ forum. Come on man…I could logon a separate account and say I’ve been a software engineer since 1970 and strongly advocate (without giving clear justification for) the use of PCs. And are you too deluded to see that the hardware is more relevant than the software aspect in this argument? Am I suggesting that the average consumer build his/her computer? LMAO. Are you suggesting that the average user is a Phd in computer science? Dude please just leave…you’re just an annoying byproduct of too much education and too little common sense. *And, by the way, ever heard of basic HTML? What’s up with the lame ‘>’?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>LOL! If you’re going to try make arguments, at least use the correct facts. Unix has been the basis of OSX from the very first release. Leopard is simply the latest release.</p>
<p>In fact, that statement betrays your utter lack of computer knowledge. You can’t “introduce” Unix as a feature, since Unix is an entire OS in and of itself. The only way to have Unix (truly) in an OS is to rewrite the OS with Unix as the core—which is exactly what Apple did with OSX.</p>
<p>$30-40 dollars? Really?</p>
<p>“Why bother wasting money in a recession? Buy a PC. And save.”</p>
<p>We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful. – Warren Buffett.</p>
<p>For some, time and service have value. Perhaps not for a lot of college students. If you have a million in the bank, does a cost difference between $500 and $3,000 for a laptop matter?</p>
<p>
Umm… no. The software is far more important than the hardware. Without software, hardware is utterly useless and even the best hardware can’t change that.</p>
<p>Oh, and you’re the one who is suggesting that the average user is willing to custom build a computer.</p>
<p>Finally, the last statement truly betrays your computer illiteracy. The markup language used on bulletin boards is not HTML, it’s BBcode.</p>
<p>You’re the one who should leave, since you’re only embarrassing yourself.</p>
<p>So you’re saying that OSX is superior software to Windows? And, I’m asking you to justify that. My point about the average user was simply a paraphrasing of the other dude’s original point for emphasis before I countered it by questioning his use of the computer scientist example. Finally:</p>
<p>“Bulletin Board Code or BBCode is a lightweight markup language used to format posts in many message boards. The available tags are usually indicated by square brackets surrounding a keyword, and they are parsed by the message board system before being translated into a markup language that web browsers understand, usually HTML or XHTML.” </p>
<p>In other words, it’s the same ■■■ and you’re just trying to be annoyingly technical to make a nonexistent ad hominem attack. Please just ■■■■. You’re as irritating as the other guy.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>You could. But your answers to simple questions shows that this is not
the case.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I attended the Mozilla Summit in Whistler this past summer. It was a
great time outside of getting trapped by a rock slide and having to
take an eight hour detour to get back to Vancouver. What do you think
was the main hardware platform at the Summit? Why would an Open Source
organization like Mozilla give their employees and interns MacBook
Pros? Why would they run their build and test servers on Mac Mini
farms?</p>
<p>I see lots of kids like you that have no grounding in CS and computer
engineering history. Why do I need to learn this? Why are there these
old black and white photos in my textbooks? Who cares about the PDP-8
or the IBM-360. People really used to use punched cards?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>You posited something about operating systems which you really know
little, if anything about. If you think that you do, answer me this:
Visual Studio 2005 added a security feature to prevent a security
problem that has plagued Microsoft software products for years.</p>
<p>1) What is this feature?
2) How does it work?
3) Why don’t software developers use it?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>If you knew your computing history, you’d know where the angle bracket
quoting style came from.</p>
<p>nj<em>azn</em>premed, personal attacks are not permitted on these forums. I suggest sticking to technical points.</p>
<p>Many computer scientists and engineers with advanced degrees choose to use Macs, often because it is the only commercially available Unix desktop that’s feasible to use professionally (not because they are somehow misinformed and rendered unintelligent by academia!)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes so you’ve made my case for me. You’re as ancient as the quoting style you’re utilizing; obviously “[ quote][ /quote]” is simpler and more efficient. And, please don’t quiz me on silly software-related trivialities.</p>
<p>@jbusc: I was not the first participant in this present confrontation to become vicious. And, Linux is a free OS…so, I really don’t understand your point.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Wow. Just wow. You obviously don’t know the slightest thing about programming. Saying that is like saying PHP and Java are the same. They’re both object-oriented, but that doesn’t make them the same.</p>
<p>If HTML were the same as BBcode, my above quote would appear as a quote. It’s valid HTML, but it’s definitely not valid BBcode.</p>