Are more students applying to colleges in the South?

College Search & Selection
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However, I have noticed on these forums that there is some demographic correlation:

  • Students who say “no south” or “want to leave the south” seem to be somewhat more likely to self identify as LGB, T, or visible minorities, perhaps because they are more likely to think that the dominant politics there will be a negative quality of life thing for them. (More recently, there also seems to be hesitation on the part of some female students with respect to abortion restrictions.)
  • Students who do seem to be interested in schools in the south for various reasons seem to be unlikely to self identify as being any of the above mentioned groups (other than the occasional Black student looking at HBCUs which are mostly in the south; non-Black students looking south tend to focus on HWCUs).

Question for those who have non-forum observations: do you see similar demographic trends among those looking to go south or avoid going south?

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Both sons went south. S20 at GT. Academics was obviously main reason. Better weather was second.

S21 at FSU. Great financial offer plus Honors was too much to pass up. Liked the kids he talked too and better weather sealed the deal.

After a year of Covid restrictions in HS going to a state with less restrictions was appealing but not a show stopper. Probably weighed a small amount in the decision.

Our suburban HS sends a high percentage to Pitt and PSU. The rest are scattered but more for preferences not merit or locale.

I too went south many years ago. Low tuition and job opportunities were tops. Better weather was a bonus.

I would suspect most relocations are mostly about finances and opportunities.

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At my high school, all of the kids who have gone to the South in the last 2 years are white and not part of the LGBTQ+ community at my school.

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Having traveled a fair amount and living in various states including the “deep” south I chuckle when I hear “I would never go south. Too racist, too backwards, too whatever…” The south doesn’t have a monopoly on those thoughts and behaviors.

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25

Not really, except for some females post Dobbs.

Most of our students stay in state or within a couple of hours, so that includes MD. We have a low AA percentage, but a higher Hispanic percentage. I suspect we have a normal LGBT percentage. Kids look at schools still, not politics. Finances, programs, and weather matter. Politics doesn’t seem to.

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I remember being a hs student in the 1980s in PA and having to make “All the Right Moves” a couple of years prior to the Tom Cruise movie, to escape PA to a southern college. I am so very happy I did.

It isn’t just students. Covid accelerated the 4 decade migration from the north to the south. In Charleston, it feels like there are more NY, PA, NJ, OH license plates than SC tags.

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28

This is head on - the country has migrated and will continue to do so. My industry - automotive - especially - with Tesla moving to Austin, Rivian coming to Georgia although the court just disallowed their incentives, Ford just breaking ground on a multi billion dollar Tennessee plant.

Sure, it’s the people, but it starts with the businesses and jobs.

My last company moved from Los Angeles to Nashville. My current company from NJ to Atlanta.

In Nashville, we are getting 5K Oracle and Amazon jobs (the high paid ones). We have Alliance Bernstein moved from NY. My company at the time moved (in 2006).

Austin, Raleigh, Charlotte, Tampa, Bentonville.

Yes, kids are coming for college - but even without many are going to come.

But there is no question - yes the weather is great and many campuses are gorgeous - but it’s the cash register that’s a huge, huge draw for many.

How else does a kid get from Long Island to Ole Miss? Yes, for all the great things (weather, beauty, etc.) but let’s be honest, kids are thinking of it because they see other kids have done it and those other kids have done it because they got such a great deal the parents said - maybe this is a smart option instead of SUNY B.

How can it not be with such a huge expense and potential savings? On the CC, we are a very small spectrum and likely not reflective of the overall arena but money is a HUGE concern for the average family.

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29

People have been migrating south since the invention of AC. As it became common, more folks moved and stayed year-round instead of mainly just winter.

Since it wasn’t as developed before there is plenty of good room compared to some other places, making it less expensive to buy compared to desirable areas in previous hotspots.

We lived in FL for 5 years as a young married couple a few decades ago. What had us moving back north wasn’t politics or jobs, but we missed winter plus the grandparents. Now we’ve found we like less of a winter, so still spend more time in the south during the cold part of the year. Politics has no pull or push whatsoever. We didn’t consider it when we moved to where we are now either.

None of my three boys chose their locations due to politics. So far those are job and weather driven. We have OH, NY, and PR (the last one being weather, first two jobs).

I wonder as the climate changes and water becomes scarce how that will affect migration in the next couple of decades. Will it reverse?

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Georgia gives very little merit to OOS kids.
With an acceptance rate in the mid 30s, what triggers merit at some schools won’t even trigger admission at Georgia. They do get kids who don’t get into their state flagship (UVA, UNC) but are still very smart. They also seem to get a lot of Texas kids, including those auto admitted to UT in their major but who wants a different environment. There are also a lot of Georgia residents whose kids don’t get in to UGA, and end up at other flagships. All this to say there are a lot of reasons people end up in southern state schools, and only one of them is merit.

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Not true around here - we crossed of all abortion ban states this year for S23 who otherwise would have had some like Rice or WashU on his list and many friends did same. Hard to discern actual trends as seems impact different in different Locations. But seems surprising to me.

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Lots of people moving south for work and school, for reasons already stated.

I don’t remember if the low cost of living in the south has been mentioned as a driver, but it deserves emphasis. As does the availability of flat land, new buildings, modern roads, cleaner industrial areas, etc.

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33

Our family is starting to consider school lists this year and I am in the driver’s seat as far as clearing selections. Our kid is looking at engineering but is a competitive athlete.

I’ve lived in two different countries, my spouse three. We have interacted with a variety of people wherever we have lived - different beliefs and economic realities.

What’s driving our search: access to a facility where our kid can hopefully continue their sports training, affordability, solid ABET-accredited school, a focus on academics at school (our kid is there to learn, first and foremost). Our search is limited by the needs my kid faces sports-wise. It also depends on what happens in the next year in terms of athletic achievements.

Our family would look in any state so long as the school would have solid academics. Our kid does not need a lot of the bells and whistles on campus, but good courses, great profs, and opportunities to build.

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Yes.

  1. Drought and wildfire prone places in the west will become less popular as the cost of water, insurance, and the risk of having to start over from scratch becomes a regular phenomenon.

  2. Wet bulb factors (when high heat combined with high humidity makes it very challenging for humans to cool off by sweating) will make the south less appealing for those who like outdoor activities, though for those who are happy never leaving a/c, then they may still come. But looking at the outlook of how many days a year the heat index will be 100+ is shocking for a large portion of the country, especially southern states.

  3. As northern universities (especially state ones) will be affected by the loss of students heading south and overall population decreases, they will start trying to recruit top applicants with more merit aid, using the same techniques that southern state schools are currently using. And as the country’s climate woes mount, more people will see the appeal of northern states. And thus, I suspect that the higher ed migration will reverse.

My (possibly flawed) understanding was that Georgia used to give a lot more out-of-state waivers for top students to recruit them to attend, but that such waivers have become much more difficult to obtain in recent years as Georgia hasn’t need to do so anymore to have the caliber of students it wants. If I was mistaken, I apologize.

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35

I think Ga and Florida schools are a bit of a misnomer. They have such mind blowing incentives to retain the high achievers - that they just don’t leave the state. I only know four or 5 who have gotten into UGA - and all got half waivers - including my daughter. I’m sure some get the full and others none.

Everyone I know at FSU (like 10) has gotten the OOS waiver and no one I know has ever gotten a waiver at UF. Now they have the grand parent awards so they are doing their best to bring kids in.

But on a % basis ,because they are so generous to the in-state high achievers, their OOS ratios will never get too high.

Contrast that with an Alabama - forget the ranking - they have 1088 National Merit Scholars. There’s a reason - has to be money - right??

Auburn - same state has a much less lower OOS population even though they are closer to a big populace (Atlanta) - why? Less merit would be my assumption.

Schools like Ole Miss and Miss State do well OOS - merit - but here’s another factor and it doesn’t just impact the South but schools like Vermont, Arkansas, Delaware…if the state is small, they’ll naturally grab OOS kids. They have to.

The difference is - where do they come from - a lot of the Southern schools are listing NY, NJ, MD, etc. as their top feeder states - at FSU, NY and NJ are third and 4th.

At Bama, Illinois is third.

College of Charleston, NY, NJ, and PA are 3-5.

Is it the money? Is it the lifestyle?

Will always be an interesting issue / perspective.

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Auburn does offer less merit because most of the high stat in state kids want to go to Auburn if they are interested in the maths, sciences, engineering. They also cap their undergrad at around 25k students. My son had free tuition plus a leadership scholarship at UGA, free tuition on the 5 year STEM to MBA at Bama and yes, he selected Auburn w/ a less generous scholarship and some student loans, but he fell in love with the school/campus and I am now a 100% believe that “fit” matters as much as affordability.

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My younger D goes to college in VA. The top 3 out of states at her college pull from MD, NC & NJ - I’m guessing in part because all 3 of those states are within reasonable driving distance to her college, which can be a contributing factor for many families in selecting an out of state college. It’s great to get even a little bit merit but not if the travel costs eat it up.

For some, it’s also the thought of where they want to live/work after graduation. Nothing is set in stone but for some industries, if they want to be in a certain city post-graduation, it helps to be at a nearby university that feeds into that industry in a given city. That’s not to say that someone from the University of Oregon can’t be successful finding a job in Raleigh, NC but it might be easier (even from merely a logistical standpoint) for graduates from NC State and UNC. When D21 was considering her options, that was something we talked about. If she chose a college in Georgia, Florida or Tennessee, would she be happy with job offers from those areas.

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I just looked up matriculation lists for the following NJ private and (application only) public schools; Bergen Academy, Peddie , Dwight Englewood, Pingry, Delbarton, Montclair Kimberly Academy and Newark Academy. Seemed like a decent sized sample but certainly not all inclusive or scientific.

In each case there were very few kids at the large southern state schools typically a handful at most. Vanderbilt and Duke consistently appear. UF, Az and Clemson seem to be the only others that appear with some frequency.

At least amongst this cohort it appears the southern schools still significantly lag in terms of appeal with typically 20-30% going Ivy with typically around 50%+ going T20 and top LACS.

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We are in NY and both of my older daughters went to southern schools, and not for Merit. My oldest chose a southern public over an Ivy. At the time my wife and I thought she was making a huge mistake. She actually made a great decision and is now attending a top med school.
My second daughter is at a different southern public and really loves it. She also turned down some amazing schools to go there. She loves the people, the vibe and is enjoying the rigorous academics.

I never thought my daughters would be at southern publics. So far it has been a great experience for them and our family. And you have to love the rah rah sports and amazing school spirit.

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I agree 100%. fit matters. Affordability is part of fit in my opinion.

There are clearly kids who would choose Auburn over Bama as in this example.

There are kids who would pick full pay $80k Emory or even lesser pedigree privates that $70 or $80k over Bama or name your cheap school.

But if we are looking at not the one off (and it’s not just you) but the masses in discussion - you can hypothesize by looking at the OOS school percentages and where the kids are coming from OOS (many high price publics states, even for in state) that it’s the $$ - talking about the aggregate, not the one offs. Auburns student body primarily comes from ‘shorter’ distances as an example. And their OOS percentage is far lower.

Great school. But that’s not the topic which is why are kids coming south and I’m just trying to demonstrate through data and used the state of Alabama as an example because it’s such a dichotomy amongst the two flagships.

No one is saying one is a better school than the other. But I’m saying one is drawing from more OOS and one is drawing from further away on average.

That one happens to be the one that spends more ‘buying’ kids including those 1100 NMFs.

I think the people on the CC aren’t the average of society. We are more engaged in this topic so many ways. Much more attached, analytical about it.

But I think that In general - not elite private schools that already show bias toward elite private colleges but in general I do believe that money/cost matters. And I do believe the data and evidence reflect that.

Ok. Other peoples turn :slight_smile:

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