Are my ECs (and stats) good enough for Princeton?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>I'm a senior next year, and I visited Princeton last weekend and fell in love with it. Without a doubt it is my #1 choice, and although I will apply to Columbia, Yale, UChicago, and Northwestern, my heart is set on Princeton. I'm just a bit worried about my ECs, as although creativity has always been my passion I have never known what I wanted to do with my life, and even though now I'm thinking of getting into law/politics, even into my Junior year I just kind of tried out new things all the time, and I was dead-set on being a writer. I'm not sure if my ECs are good enough, what I can really do to improve them without sort-of selling out and being fake, and also what exactly I should and shouldn't mention, and I'd appreciate some help with it. Thanks. :D</p>

<p>App:
-White (Irish)
-Public high school in Chicago suburbs, around 315 kids in my class, friendly-but-competitive within each year, one of 50 best schools in Illinois
-Unsure of what unweighted GPA is, but I've only ever gotten one B (in Calc AB, 1st semester--I was one point on the final away from having an A-), got all but one A- this last semester but mostly mid-A's before that, and I've taken 10 Honors classes and 5 AP so far, and weighted on 5.0 scale is 4.596
-Currently #2 in class, was #1 all three years but a homeschooled kid joined our class this year and took the spot; I'll be within top 3 people if I get mostly A's since only one other kid is taking nearly as many APs as me</p>

<p>-Commended for National Merit Scholarship but almost certainly not Semifinalist (received letter that I was in top 50,000) cause I guessed too much on the math, had 202 overall
-34 on ACT, 9 on writing (took it twice, first time was 35 on English, 34 on Math, 34 on Science, 34 on Reading, with 8 on Writing, whereas second time got a 36 on English, 35 on Math, 34 on Reading, but 32 on Science, with 9 on writing, and composite both times was 34 --superscored I'd have a 35)
-SAT II: US History 780, Lit 670, Physics 650 (taking 3 more in fall [Lit, Physics, and Math 2], accidentally sent all these scores to Princeton and the other schools with free score reporting service because I didn't know you could, I think, pay to send only the good ones)
-AP:
Euro: 5
Calc AB: 5
USH: 5
Eng Lang: 5
Phys B: 4
Next year, taking:
AP Lit
AP Phys C
AP Psych
AP Gov/Comp Gov
AP Econ</p>

<p>ECs: [keep in mind what I said about not knowing what I wanted to do, and also that my school only allows you to be an officer in one club at a time]</p>

<p>Don't know what essays will be about, but I have a lot of good ideas swimming around and I'm really passionate about writing so I think they'll be pretty good. Probably 80% funny and 20% serious.</p>

<p>Freshman:
-Literary magazine (member and getting many works published)
-Academic team (have done it since 7th grade; won MVP at local competition)
-Wrote and self-published a comedic science-fiction novel trilogy (80,000 words) online
-Finished taking guitar lessons after 3 years and then self-recorded 3 instrumental albums
-Started online comic strip which continued into junior year</p>

<p>Sophomore:
-Literary magazine
-Academic Team
-Key Club
-FBLA
-Joined film club towards end of year
-Had rock band with several kids a grade below me, but broke up after one year</p>

<p>Junior:
-Literary magazine
-Academic Team (Varsity)
-Key Club (Historian)
-Student Council (led construction of 20-30 foot cardboard light-up buildings for Homecoming dance, spent between 20 and 30 hours by the end of it on that sub-council)
-Science Olympiad (won bronze for It's About Time in sectionals on JV team, but was unable to attend the next competition)
-FBLA (won 10th and 7th in Impromptu Speaking and Talent Show at State)
-Started a progressive folk rock band with 2 friends, for which I am writing, recording, and mixing an album and also hopefully getting us to play live shows during senior year
-Participated in and won "Mr. [high school]", an annual satirical beauty pageant at the school, against all the popular athlete seniors at the school, in front of over 500 people
(-Wrote and ran D&D campaign at my lunch table during school year, though I'm not sure I'd include that, lol)</p>

<p>Senior:
-NHS (President)
-Kind-of still Key Club
-President's Council (meets with principal to discuss issues/events)
-Hopefully directing at least 1 one-act play with drama club (I'm writing 3 of them this summer, at least), likely getting involved in some way with the play and musical during the school year
-Student Council
-Literary magazine
-FBLA
-Academic Team (likely a co-captain)
-Working on a huge novel (though I likely won't have anything to show for it until I'm like 25)</p>

<p>So... any thoughts? :)</p>

2

<p>Your ACT is fine as are your grades. Certainly, you would be a competitive applicant based on these 2 measures. Also your ECs seem ok to me.</p>

<p>However, to be honest, I think you would be in
much better shape if you hadn’t sent those SAT II scores. They are definitely low by Princeton standards.</p>

3

<p>Yeah, my heart sank when I realized that they would receive them. They say they’ll give greatest weight to the highest ones but still I know they’ll judge me for them.</p>

<p>Though on the CB website, in my account the Score Send History says “No score reports have been sent to your selected colleges and/or scholarship programs.” Does that mean the schools I picked (Princeton, Columbia, Yale, U Chicago) won’t receive them until I trigger something on the website, or is that a separate listing for ones I would pay for, or are they going to be sent in a couple of weeks, or what? I would pay to rectify the situation.</p>

4

<p>Its hard to judge by just that, care to share some of your awards and/or other important hooks?</p>

5

<p>In the end, for Princeton it will not be about your grades and scores being good enough. They can only take a fraction of the applicants whose stats are good enough. Understand now that most kids with good enough stats will be rejected. The vast majority.</p>

<p>Top colleges are socially engineered. First they take athletes, URMs, legacies, kids of the famous and ones from all 50 states and many countries. By the time they round out the class with great students from NY, Boston, Chicago and LA, they have room for very few. It will never be about good enough for such students, it’s about making yourself stand out in some way to be among the under 3% of unhooked students who will be accepted.</p>

<p>What that takes is anyone’s guess, but it’s important to be open to loving other schools and to not thinking you were not good enough.</p>

6

<p>Warning: rambling ahead.</p>

<p>See, but that’s what I’m trying to figure out. I listed here every single thing I can remember about myself, and I really don’t think there are any awards I’ve won or major “hooks” I have (not sure what exactly makes something a hook by this board’s definition–can anyone elaborate?)–and I’m trying to figure out if there’s anything I can really do <em>at this point</em> that would help me stand out, or if my lack of uptight parents-living-through-me childhood (had brother and sister who did as well at the school as I have, parents have bad backs and have had tens of thousands of dollars of debt from medical expenses my whole life, only my dad went to college and that was only for 2 years at community school for computer programming–I did gifted programs starting when I was in 2nd grade, have always been shy and a bit introverted and probably played too many videogames but I’ve always tried to do the most with what I’m given–I don’t even know how kids do stuff like winning national competitions for novels and business and stuff, or start up businesses or invent things or all that, and I’ve tried to do my best and figure out what interests me but I’ve always felt like kids like that often don’t really care and have far pushier parents than I do) means that I just have to kind of do my best when applying and keep up a good senior year and hope for the best.</p>

<p>I mean, I know Princeton is pretty much having my sights set sky-high, but I just feel like it’d allow me to actually become who I want to be through being surrounded by intellectual and compassionate people and possibly the best undergraduate education in the nation–and the truly mind-blowing financial aid that only Princeton and a select few other equally selective schools provide is the only thing which would allow me to have a chance at going to graduate school for many years even with scholarships, as my parents would be able to give me roughly 0% of any expected contribution, and there’s no money saved up due to their divorce and then remarriage. I’d be perfectly happy going to, for example, Northwestern, where it seems I’d be pretty likely to get in and where I’d also be surrounded by brilliant people and a great education, but I feel like Princeton just feels right to me, and even if I’m setting my hopes up to get dashed, I still really want to go there.</p>

<p>I guess there is one other thing–I took #2 in the VFW essay this year at my school. But I don’t even know where I’d START to do some of the things I see other kids doing on these forums.</p>

7

<p>The top 30 or so colleges all have peer groups that are amazing.</p>

<p>It’s funny, kids with pushy parents blame them for pressure and burn out, those with non pushy parents are sure they would have liked to have them. As a long time college counselor I can tell you it’s mostly about your own drive.</p>

8

<p>I know, but I just feel this connection with Princeton that, due to its relative intimacy and selectivity and diversity, I would be able to truly become the person I’ve always wanted to be–I got the impression when there that it’s a very human and spirited place but one that really pushes people to be brilliant, more than most schools in this country. I’m not trying to say “I’m some kind of a genius but I have no opportunities in my small town” or anything like that–I feel that I’m intelligent enough to get into Princeton, though not a genius by any means, and being close to Chicago and other big places there’s a lot of stuff I COULD hypothetically be doing. I’m just saying that, I suppose, getting into such a great school would help me overcome the stagnation I’ve always felt and let me actually be part of a realm where people learn in order to better themselves and the world and really care about it, as opposed to just seeing it as the means to an end (meaning, nothing but money). Do you know what I mean? I know I would meet lots of smart people at Northwestern and get a good education, but I don’t feel like it would help my character as much–and influence me to improve it. It’s something I’d take from a Princeton education more than something it would give me, but I definitely feel it’s there, more than at other places.</p>

<p>But I’m not saying I wish I had pushy parents–I’m saying I didn’t have them and because of that I’ve just done what seems interesting and fun and positive throughout high school and my life in general, and I’ve never really felt motivated to do anything that felt fake or “good for college” like playing a sport would for me (as I personally find almost all of the sports at my school boring and overemphasized, and I dislike a lot of the people who would be on a team with me), but now that I know where I would like to go, where I can (as my sister instructed me) picture “the best version of [myself] being successful and content,” I’m worried that I won’t stand out enough amongst other applicants (when I said “good enough,” I meant compared to others) and I’m wondering what, if anything, I could do to make myself seem like a better candidate.</p>

<p>Thanks. :{)</p>

9

<p>Rockysterling:</p>

<p>Well, I was in about the exact same situation as you at this time last year. Right around July first, I came back from my tour of HYPS and Penn and fell in love with Pton. I had a 2340 and was the val of my class with ECs about where yours are. I was ultimately turned down by Pton. However, the point I am making here is that you have a “good” shot but “good” is very relative. Rejection at any given HYPS school is likely for any hookless applicant. So just work hard and put your heart into your essays and ace your senior year. Btw, since we are about the same academically/EC-wise you should take solace in knowing that while I didnt get my dream school, I got into multiple ivy league schools. You should as well so spread a wide net!</p>

10

<p>What do you guys consider a “hook”? Please don’t say dumb shiitte like curing cancer.</p>

11

<p>^^ URM, lower income, family issues, serious personal challenges, international awards etc.</p>

12

<p>is middle eastern considered URM?</p>

13

<p>^ no, thats considered white</p>

14

<p>You certainly have a good chance, but as was mentioned earlier, a good chance at Princeton could very well end up being a rejection. But if you love the school that much, just apply and hope for the best. There are many other schools that are similarly excellent, that are similarly spirited (in fact, I would say Yale is the most spirited :wink: ) and will push you to achieve everything you’ve dreamed of. Don’t set your sights on one school, especially one like Princeton, because chances are your heart will be broken. But again, there are other places that are just as amazing.</p>

<p>And also, visiting a school and going on a tour / to an info session is completely different from the full college experience. At many of these schools, your PEERS are what make the school what it is (that’s certainly the case at Yale, at least in my opinion) and it’s really hard to judge whether or not you’ll like it there until you’ve been accepted, attended an admit weekend, and mixed with all the other admits and current students. I’m not saying that your image of Princeton will necessarily change, just that perspectives can change once you’re really experiencing the school. For instance, my parents and I have always held this idealized image of Stanford, and visiting the beautiful campus only reinforced that idea. But when I stayed for a couple of days after being admitted, I realized I didn’t like the people at Stanford all that much, at least not in comparison to the cool, friendly, intellectual, talented, artsy people I found at Yale.</p>

15

<p>Thank you. I’m definitely applying to about seven or eight schools, not just Princeton, and I’d be happy with any one of them. But Princeton is definitely my dream school, plain and simple–and there’s nothing wrong with that, right?</p>

<p>Also, would anything I’ve mentioned count as any kind of a hook–mom is on disability for her bad back, her job (where she was injured) never paid her medical expenses and so we’ve been in debt my whole life until they got divorced when I was 11, and it was kind of a miracle that I was born because that whole terrible semi-paralyzing back accident happened to her just after she found out she was pregnant, dad also has bad back and has had a heart attack and dealt with depression yet he’s had to be the sole earner in the family, we lived with my grandma until my parents got divorced and took care of her, brother has bipolar disorder–things like that? Or would it be like, my dad was shot by pirates on a cruise ship and my mom had to give birth while scuba-diving away from them, and she was defrauded by a terrorist cell and so we had to live in a tiny raft off the coast of South Carolina for the first ten years of my life until her secret agent paycheck could come through?</p>

16

<p>Well, we don’t want to make it a sob story, but that would be an interesting essay topic (about how the events in your life have shaped you and whatnot), but none of those are definitively a “hook”. A hook is if you are a recruited athlete, a URM, or something to that degree. </p>

<p>I have to tell you that I feel like I have a kindred spirit with you. I’ve always done stuff at school and loved doing it. I’m very passionate about what I do, but have never even known where to begin with some of those ridiculous competitions and national recognitions. My best advice is this: find something you love and do it (I love science and am simply going to try for the Intel ISEF), and pray (don’t know if you believe in God) a lot. Not about getting into Princeton, but about going where He wants you to go. Like you, I feel like Yale (not Princeton) is the perfect place for me. I feel some inexplicable draw to the place and feel like it can inspire me to be the best I can be and allow myself to come into my own and really build lasting relationships with people, but I don’t know if I can get in (despite considerable talents, much like you). BTW, you may wish to add some of your writing as an addition to your app.</p>

<p>Chance? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/953637-chance-me-ivies.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/953637-chance-me-ivies.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In the words of Edmond Dantes “Until the day when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these two words,—‘Wait and hope”</p>

17

<p>Yeah, I feel that you have a pretty similar app. Actually way better than mine in the ECs. Good luck! :)</p>

<p>I’m wondering about the essay actually–would I be able to both bring up my family history AND be interesting and funny, or are they mutually exclusive? There’s a place on the common app where I could put that neither parent has a bachelor’s (dad has associate’s) and both of my siblings had to go to community college for 2 years and then transfer out to 4-year schools, but would the “Additional Information” section be a suitable place to talk about my background, leaving the essay to be more clever and humorous? I don’t want to turn it into a sob story by any means–not just to not seem like a whiner, but because my life hasn’t been a sob story like “oh my parents have cancer and I live in the slums,” it’s just not been rosy or easy or privileged or super intellectually-stimulating and we certainly don’t have spare money lying around. I guess to show that it would be a big deal for me to go to one of these amazing schools and I would… appreciate it more than some of the spoiled kids out there who’d be applying? That’s kind of the point, right?</p>

18

<p>I would suppose so, but I don’t think they care if you will appreciate it more. What they care about more is that you will utilize the resources available to you given the chance. Make it a point of saying that even though you haven’t had the most opportunities, you’ve done the best with what you have and feel like Princeton would give you opportunities you will use to improve the world.</p>

19

<p>Unless you are a celebrity or BIG donor, Princeton is just too unpredictable to chance. You COULD get in, but its definitely not certain. Apply and see what happens.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/953807-chance-2-3-between-junior-senior.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/953807-chance-2-3-between-junior-senior.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

20

<p>Yeah, that’s what I meant by appreciate. Not like “aww, thanks princeton!” I mean take advantage of the opportunities because I actually care and am not just doing it because it’s a famous and elite school. I think I’m getting a better idea of what to put into an application and such thanks to you guys, and what exactly “chance” (aka, it’s not based on chance) I have with Princeton (and probably any other school in that range). So thanks. :)</p>