<p>I think most of the comments here have focused on the issue of choosing to teach in high school. I’d like to respond to an earlier part of the OP’s statement: The OP said that he/she would definitely like to go to grad school and try to get a Ph.D. in math, but “horror stories” are dissuading him/her.</p>
<p>Do you love math? Do you really, really love math? To the point that you’d like to pursue a field deeper than anyone has done before? If so, I say, go for the Ph.D. and see where it takes you. If you have done reasonably well in math at a top 25 college, there are a lot of math Ph.D. programs in the U.S. that would admit you easily. </p>
<p>It is no doubt tough to get into the very top Ph.D. programs. Do you have some experience with undergraduate research? That will make it easier to get into the top programs. Have you participated in any of the math competitions? Have you discovered anything in the course of your classwork–it doesn’t have to be something truly new, just something that wasn’t in the textbook, that you thought about. That sort of thing can be included in your professors’ letters of recommendation. </p>
<p>You don’t really know if you will be mathematically creative until you try it out.</p>
<p>Teaching math in high school is a valuable service to the country, but you shouldn’t pursue it as a path away from the “horror stories.”</p>
<p>“This, to me, translates as: Based on all my hard work and sacrifice, the least my kid could do is to pursue a career solely based on optimizing his salary. And if he doesn’t, I will make sure to remind him of that fact often, and compare him to peers who make more.”</p>
<p>Whatever works Pizzagirl. I may not have a father with multimillions of dollars waiting in the wings (how nouveau riche of you to mention it) and the poster sound like his family doesn’t.</p>
<p>Quote:
If it was one of my kids, who are attending very expensive private schools, and they wanted to be a teacher, I would probably react as your parents did. You are talking about a lot of money, and if your parents aren’t wealthy and paying full freight, they most likely feel that they have thrown away money for which they worked very hard.
This, to me, translates as: Based on all my hard work and sacrifice, the least my kid could do is to pursue a career solely based on optimizing his salary. And if he doesn’t, I will make sure to remind him of that fact often, and compare him to peers who make more.</p>
<p>We were not upset when our daughter, who attended a very expensive Ivy League school, decided to join Teach for America. We did not feel we had thrown our money away. We were proud of her for wanting to give back – in fact, she clearly articulated to us that she believed that anyone who was lucky enough to have had the education that she had gotten should give something back to society. Nor were we upset when she stayed in the classroom a third year, or when she went to work full-time by Teach for America. Is an education only worth something if you go into a lucrative field? Is our money better spent on the kid who wants to go to medical school because he might earn more? For what it’s worth, her degree did open up a lot of doors for her within her profession and she has worked for and with some of the leaders in education reform at a very young age, but had she chosen to stay in the classroom for another ten years or longer, as opposed to staying in education outside the classroom, that would not lessen the value of her education. I can’t understand why we, as a society, would not seek well-educated people to educate our children. I am always thrilled when one of my kids gets an exceptionally intelligent, well-educated teacher who challenges the kids. I don’t believe that education alone makes someone a successful teacher, but a well-educated teacher who is well-suited to teach, can often really challenge kids, especially at the high school level.</p>
<p>BTW, some public school teachers get well paid. Special subject teachers, I assume math is one, teaching load is low from what I heard. A lot of free time, summer off, decent pay, job satisfaction. In a right(?) school district. it’s an excellent employment.</p>
<p>mimk6- Your story is of unconditional love! </p>
<p>I do advise students majoring in education who will “foot their own bill” (and there’s a LOT of them) to only accrue less than $30,000 of student loan debt. Even with state U, the student would have to go the community college route first or articulate community college credits while in high school in order to pull that off. (And many do!)</p>
<p>Many recent education grads are encountering a terrible job market and are having to resort to subbing and waiting on tables.</p>
<p>This website is for the most part, dedicated to young people getting the most spectacular college education, but disregards the teachers/system that helped to get them there…</p>
<p>I have not read through this whole thread but I will say that the OPs family is a very important reason as to the state of our schools. There is nothing more wonderful than being a competent teacher and imparting that brilliance on hundreds of kids. A good teacher is priceless, especially in math. It is terrible that bright college students are told by their parents not to be a teacher, we should implore our best and brightest to become teachers not financial wizards. Yes, the current state of teaching is in a flux but there are few professions that aren’t in a flux today. We need to rise teachers up on the pedestal they deserve and find the money to pay them as well. </p>
<p>It’s not just about “giving back” as I see it. It’s “giving back” on someone else’s dime. If someone has given me the gift of a top 25 U, so I want to give back, shouldn’t the first ones I try to give back to be the ones that gave me the gift of the education?
I don’t see this as a problem with becoming a teacher. Teachers are valuable, exceptional teachers are a treasure. Not the point, as I see it.</p>
<p>Is this a fair metaphor? Suppose I want to give my son the gift of a new car. He explains to me why the new Escalade is a unique fit for his needs/wants. I’m not made of money, but in this example let’s say I am convinced the cost/features of the Escalade are what he will need, and I am able to give him the gift he wants. Now, try these 2 scenarios: 1) A couple years after he owns it, he gives it to Salvation Army to “give back” to society. Or, 2) A couple years into ownership, we all see he is only driving to the grocery, and work, etc. Now we see there was no unique need for an Escalade. A new Cobalt would have served him equally well.
In both cases it turns out I have spent far more for him than necessary to achieve what I though was going to be a unique result. My desire was to give him a gift that could better his life. If my intent was to give back to society, I could have chosen to directly make a gift to a charity rather than a gift to my son. Had he spent his own money I could have no complaint. If I’m made of money it’s no big deal. But he enticed me to spend my money, convincing me his need was for something much more costly than other good alternatives. It’s turned out his need was real, and honorable, but not the unique, hard to reach goal I had believed it was when I spent so much.</p>
<p>A question for those who think that an expensive education at a top school is only justified if your kids are wildly financially successful (as opposed to simply supporting themselves): yours is an extremely anti-intellectual and lowbrow attitude. You want the snob value of the education but you don’t care about the substance of the education. If your child decides to join the Peace Corps, become a teacher, or be a minister, you’re going to be upset? Then you should have told your child before college and made him go to an in- state public instead of complaining after the fact. BTW I am not a private school snob; I have high respect for state flagships.</p>
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<p>When you give a gift, you can’t control how the recipient uses the gift. If I give someone money, it’s gone. I can’t call it back if I don’t like how it’s used. Similarly, I give my child the gift of an education. I can’t control how it’s used. If spending 200K+ on college makes you uncomfortable for any reason, maybe you shouldn’t have done it. It’s not fair to put that burden of discomfort and regret on your kid.</p>
<p>I agree 100% I cannot control how a gift is used. I do not have the right.
But I do have the right to be pleased- or not pleased with how it is used. And that, seems to me is where the Op’s parents are. They feel a more moderately priced education could have attained the same end result. That isn’t their being snobs; it is their being practical.
I also have a right to feel disappointed if I was convinced the gift would be used differently than it really was, and so would the Op’s parents
.</p>
<p>Exactly NJSue. Let’s start giving our teachers the best education possible, why should teachers be given only “state school” education? Is college about return on investment and is that return on investment only in dollars? I have no prejudice against state schools by the way, my husband and most of my family went to state schools and were very happy there.</p>
<p>It’s understandable to be disappointed if a child does not use the gift of an education in a way that you hoped. I get that. What I don’t understand is the idea that the child has a straight-up financial obligation to the parent to maximize the financial ROI of a degree. If a parent has that mentality, then the paying parent should insist that the child pursue the cheapest possible degree option from the get-go and forget the high-prestige expensive stuff that has such an uncertain payoff. It’s a parent problem, not a student problem.</p>
<p>This particular student is considering being a teacher, which is an honorable and stable career choice. He has done nothing to deserve being told that he wasted his parents’ money. Would it be better if he had decided to be a subprime mortgage bond trader and helped to ruin the world economy as long as he personally had made a lot of money? I just don’t understand.</p>
<p>What? "why should teachers be given only “state school” education? " No one said that. The premise before us is that these particular parents of the OP feel they paid much more than necessary as a gift to their offspring given the result the kid now leans toward choosing. It’s not that they feel there should be a law restricting the education of teachers. They just feel their money wasn’t well spent; that less could have been spent and still reached the same goal. We all can only guess what went into the conversation the Op and parents had before deciding on a school. But from the OrigPost, I suspect the parents expected something different than looks like what will happen.
Of course, all posters here have a right to agree or disagree with how they feel over money they spent.</p>
<p>In some places it is very hard to get a teaching job without the connections made during student teaching or performing observation hours, so it is even possible that a degree from a prestigious university outside of the area that you want to teach might be a liability in this economy.</p>
<p>There is an issue of control here. If I spend $250,000 on my child’s education, do I have a right to choose my child’s major? Future job? Spouse? Where does it end?
BTW, I am a teacher, and doing pretty well after 20 years in the system. I love my job. I have insurance and a pension. I make a difference. I get along with my colleagues. It’s been a great job.</p>
<p>Another possibility for this student is to consider teaching at independent or private schools. There are national placement agencies that help match applicants to positions at such schools.</p>
<p>I think if I’ve spent $200,000 on my child’s education and he decides to drop out 15 credits short of graduating because he’s just not feeling like going anymore, I’d have the right to be upset. I don’t have the right to an opinion about majors or minors or future professions unless I’m asked.</p>
<p>not exactly what’s before us though, tptshorty.
It’s not just that we’re allowed(or not) to control because we gave.
I think we all agree if we make a gift, then the recipient is allow to do as he pleases with the gift. But in this thread I think the key is- what were the circumstances before the gift? So, if one is persuaded into giving a gift with certain expectations, but the gift(once given) is now used for different purposes, we may have a right to be disappointed.
From the Orig Post, I get the impression the parents expected something different that the grad now intends.</p>