<p>Although I know that the paperwork for financial aid and admissions is separate for need-blind schools, someone recently told me that such schools can still see if you applied for financial aid or not on the application itself. I know that on the Common App, the schools do ask if you are applying for FA or not, and when I generate the final copy of my app, the FA question and its answer is displayed. Therefore, I have to ask, does the Admissions Committee at need-blind schools see that question when they are evaluating applications? If so, can they still be truly need-blind? If they are able to see that an applicant applied for FA, I imagine that bias could creep in even if the readers are told to disregard it. </p>
<p>I have also heard of other ways colleges guess if you’re applying for FA or not, by looking at your zip code and your parents’ jobs. I doubt I’ll be able to get a definite answer on here, but are such subtle observations made to determine an applicant’s ability to pay?</p>
<p>You should assume that schools that claim to be need blind are in fact need blind. What point is there in idle speculation.</p>
<p>Even if the school is need blind, yes, the AO may guess whether or not a student is seeking financial aid, but since FA is not part of his/her job responsibilities, that’s as far as it will go.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that for US citizens and permanent residents, most schools are need blind- which means your having s financial need is not a factor in admissions.</p>
<p>However the more important thing is that most schools do not meet 100% demonstrated need This is what you should be more concerned about because in a nutshell most schools are not going to give you the money that they think that you will need</p>
<p>You pretty much answered your own question, “If they are able to see that an applicant applied for FA, I imagine that bias could creep in even if the readers are told to disregard it.” </p>
<p>The truth is without audits there is no such thing as accountability. This applies to everything including college admissions. Given that universities don’t have wild swings in % of students receiving FA v not year-over-year then there must be some system in place to limit FA. </p>
<p>. . . .or the applicant pool is very consistent year after year.</p>
<p>I believe that the schools who have large enough endowments to easily support need-blind policies and say they are need-blind are truly need-blind.</p>
<p>Taking a certain percentage from legacies, famous/rich families, and certain feeder schools is likely enough to ensure that the colleges will get the percentage of full-pays that they desire while still being truthfully need-blind…</p>
<p>Need blind is not synonymous w meets full need. All it means is that your challenging financial circumstances will not affect their decision to admit u. Whether they give u as much money as u think u need is another matter. </p>
<p>“say they are need-blind are truly need-blind.”
"Taking a certain percentage from legacies, famous/rich families, and certain feeder schools "</p>
<p>Contradiction much? </p>
<p>Having a set percentage of full-pay people is exactly the definition of not really need-blind. </p>
<p>@GMTplus7
The acceptance rate and the yield rate are very close to each other at the top tier universities such as Stanford and Harvard. So if they are letting people in, they know the bulk attend. </p>
<p>No contradiction. Being need-blind means that they don’t consider need. It doesn’t mean that they don’t consider other factors that are correlated with need.</p>
<p>You can argue that they’re being disingenuous, but railing against that is kind of silly considering that they could just drop being need-blind and it wouldn’t help you one bit.</p>
<p>At many of the schools there is a bias AGAINST “silver spoon” kids, full pays. The average pay of admissions personale is less than annual cost of some the schools where they work. There is more resentment about that than an issue with needing aid. Most fin aid employees need fin aid for their own kids. That they can disregard need as factor is a privilege that they readily and happily take. </p>
<p>A whole other story with need aware schools. </p>
<p>For those schools that say they are need blind, I tend to believe them GWU not withstanding. It’s difficult to keep secrets of that sort in any office. </p>
I think admissions personnel have envy and contempt for just the plain vanilla, upper-middle class fullpays. They welcome w obsequious enthusiasm the deluxe Belgian chocolate, mega wealthy development cases.</p>
<p>Bomerr…what is your point? If a student checks NO for “applying for aid” on the common application, the stuse to is not applying for aid. That means they will be full pay. No rocket science on that!</p>
<p>I’m not sure what point ypunare trying to make with your posts. Please clarify.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7, I think you’ll find that admissions personnel have no personal enthusiasm for development cases. However, some they are essentially forced to admit by the school administration.</p>
<p>If you ask, some of the most bitter memories adcoms have would be where they had to admit development cases and athletes who they felt to be clearly undeserving while turning away kids who they thought were absolutely stellar.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think the common app should just eliminate that question and let those schools that are need aware in admissions ask in the supplemental section. Admissions can just send Fin aid the list of accepted students and let that dept pick out those who applied for fin aid. I’m told that a reason the question is there is to be another check that those who are applying for financial aid get the reminders to get in their things, and for fin aid to start up a file for them due to the tight schedule in coming up with those packages once accepted. But people do read other things into it. Doesn’t help that there are schools need aware in admissions that are not up front about it and some that have been deceptive. </p>
<p>Any department, anyone running a process tends to dislike and even resent outsiders dictating to them. So, Admissions Offices are not particularly happy about the concessions they have to make to development, celebrity, athletics and other personal pull factors. They like hearing from professors that have seen a candidate’s work or talked to a candidate and is not personally invested, not an interested party, advocate for someone who has a particular talent, done some remarkable things, yes. But they are not interested in the dept chair, the vp of whatever, this person and that at the university, pushing admissions, as they do get pushed at highly selective schools. Some things they accept, yes, legacy gets some points, and there are special process pools that have a lot influence and to some degree even can dictate who they have to accept, but they also get an awful lot of “friends of” type push that they really resent. </p>
<p>Michele Hernandez in her book “A is for Admissions” talks about the fact that an admissions director at highly selective schools do tend to look at candidates in the light of their privileges and that they do prefer that underdog. She outright advises downplaying ones privileges on the personal info part of the app and in essays avoiding references to the privileges and luxuries of the well to do. Doesn’t play well with admissions. </p>
<p>That is the contradiction. If someone is placed into a separate full-pay “legacies, famous/rich families, and certain feeder schools” category then they are clearly not equal to the pool of students asking for fin aid. </p>
<p>Oh please Bomerr. Let it go! If one of the Obama kids, Applied to a college, it would be abundantly clear that they would not seek need based aid. Ditto any other person of general fame and fortune. These folks don’t apply for need based aid.</p>
<p>And anyway…like I said above…applying is NOT the issue…it’s the amount of aid you need that would matter at need aware schools. If you apply for aid, but your family income is $200,000, you would not be eligible for need based aid…the school would know you were a full pay student.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your point is. Not at all.</p>
<p>And as noted above…so,what if a school is need aware or need blind? The vast majority of the 3000 colleges in this country don’t meet full need for all anyway…and getting need met is what matters.</p>
<p>I am applying to a handful of need-blind schools. While my family would qualify for financial aid, my parents want me to not apply for it so my chance of admission isn’t hurt. They can get some distant relatives to cover the cost. I think it’s stupid to do this but I am having a hard time convincing my parents.</p>
<p>My opinion…if you need financial aid, apply for it. An acceptance will do you NOmgood if you are not absolutely sure you can cover the costs. Relying on a distant relative is…well…risky.</p>
<p>There might be a slight edge to being a full pay student…but only OF you can actually pay the $50,000 plus that it will cost you for the upcoming year. Can your parents really pay that cost?</p>
<p>Is there a difference between how tippy-top schools (ex. Harvard, Columbia) and other lower schools (ex. Emory) view your financial aid status? I know the real question is how much aid is given, but I’m asking purely for admissions decisions right now.</p>