<p>I am almost sure I will study science (probably CS or Biology) in college. Problem occurred when I was deciding between Colgate and UIUC(cs). Someone studying in Colgate tells me if I want to study English literature or Econ, Colgate is the right place, but not science. Is it true that Colgate is so unsuitable to study science? Yes, I would get nice interns and jobs in CS@UIUC, but I don't like the atmosphere in a huge university with more than 40000 students and the climate in Illinois. If Colgate would provide really great science programs with the most beautiful campus and interpersonal network, I would definitely go there.</p>
<p>Your comments will be greatly appreciated.XD~</p>
<p>Granted Colgate isn’t a R1. But what the student said is one of those things that is “greener on the other side of the fence.” Colgate provides an unique opportunity to do hands-on research from early on (sophomore year, usually). There is summer funding for Colgate students to stay on campus or travel with a faculty member and conduct research. This has provided invaluable experiences and given Colgate students an edge in graduate admissions. They will usually have a paper or two and some conference posters. I’ve known plenty of Colgate students who have successfully received admissions into excellent PhD programs, straight out of undergraduate. You are not competing against graduate students (there are NO graduate students). You’re actually being mentored by a professor, not a post-doc (although there are few but you will always get direct supervision from a professor). You will almost never get any of that at a big research university. If you go to a big R1 like UIUC, you will most likely need an extra year or two of additional lab experience before being competitive enough for graduate schools.</p>
<p>The labs, for a LAC, are amazing. I wasn’t in the sciences but when the new science center came opened, I was so jealous.</p>
<p>Eternalcharlie if by cs you mean computer science, my son majored in cs at Colgate, got a paid internship between his junior and senior year, and had a job in hand as a software engineer by Oct. of his senior year. He’s found that department to be rigorous and challenging.</p>
<p>Colgate has built a number of excellent science facilities, including new science buildings, in recent years and they are very impressive. It’s true that Colgate – like most liberal arts colleges – is not a top science university. Those would be MIT,Caltech, and others. But you go a schools like Colgate for a liberal arts education at a very high level. Science will be part of that, but not the only part. And science at Colgate will be taught not only in excellent facilities, but also in a humane and broad liberal arts environment rather than in a technical school. </p>
<p>There is endless debate over the purposes of undergraduate colleges. Are they for job training? For a well rounded education? For both? I’ve always believed that you go to a liberal arts college to find out more about many things, to expand your view of the world, to experiment and investigate and not to focus on one discipline only. If you would like to become a broadly educated person who also has strong science abilities, a liberal arts college is where you do that. If you want a technical education, you go to science-oriented colleges. </p>
<p>But, as all of my pre-med, science, and math friends have told me many times, the major regret they had about their educations is that they focused too narrowly too soon and did not get to read literature, study art, philosophy, history, music, foreign languages – or travel – much. Focusing narrowly too soon leaves you good at a few things and unknowledgable about many. It’s your life, but I would always choose a liberal arts college. Specialize in graduate school which is where many of Colgate’s better students end up. You will find your broad liberal arts education serves you well for the rest of your life.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with Colgate’s science departments at all. I would say it’s just as good as the rest of the school, so you definitely shouldn’t let that discourage you. If that was the only reason you’re holding back, you should pick Colgate hands down.</p>
<p>@ticklemepink Thank you very much for the analysis. But, for computer science at undergraduate level, lab experience is not that important. Everything we need is a laptop, which almost all the students have.</p>
<p>BTW, is it real that Colgate has a really small science department? The stats on Colgate website states that there are only 5 students in computer science during 2008~2009.</p>
<p>eternalcharlie, where’d you get the 5 number? That is likely the number to graduate in May 2009 with a major in Computer Science, not the total number of students that had declared a major (which includes 3 class years). There are usually also many other students minoring or just taking courses in that department. I was a Japanese major and while there were only 4 other students my year with that major, there were twice as many who minored or who were Asian Studies majors focusing on Japan and taking courses in the department. It was actually really nice to have a small, tightly-knit department - we’d even go to the professors’ houses for dinner.</p>
<p>There are around 700 students per year and with 51 majors, that’s an average of only 13.7 students per major. Taking into account that some majors are much more popular (English, Political Science, Psychology, etc.), 5 is hardly unexpected for other departments.</p>
<p>One other point is you can be dead set on a certain field/major and completely change your mind. I wanted to major in Theater and only take two years of Japanese (enough to study abroad), but after going to Japan I changed my mind completely and will now be heading to grad school next fall to continue studying Japanese. I ended up minoring in Sociology after taking a great intro class and if I’d only taken it earlier I would have double majored in it. Colgate is a great place to explore and learn about things you never knew you might be interested in - you might end up where you never expected…</p>
<p>I just checked with a 2007 alum who majored in Computer Science and he thinks that there were either 7 or 8 graduating seniors that year with Computer Science majors. Given a cohort of about that size each year, there are usually around 20-25 Computer Science majors on campus (you declare your major mid-Sophomore year, so that is Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors). This doesn’t include students minoring in the department.</p>
<p>I loved the biology department at Colgate. Although it is a small department compared to UIUC (which I’m sure has many varied and amazing opportunities), I felt that I got to know most of the professors well during my 4 years in the department. Every professor comes from an excellent background with a dedication to teaching the undergraduates. Many state schools have excellent research opportunities and big laboratories, but at Colgate, you will be the researcher under the direct supervision of the professor (versus lab tech under a PhD student or post-doc at bigger schools). Undergraduates thus have opportunities to be published as first or second author.</p>
<p>The biology department has approximately 50 students each year, and we have great facilities for our size. However, one of the biggest strengths of our program is the study abroad option at the NIH. Every year, approximately 15 students spend 6 months as a research assistant in Bethesda (a professor accompanies the group to teach two additional classes). Such early experience in research leads to great positions after college (at the NIH or elsewhere). </p>
<p>However, there are downsides to consider too. Your research options at Colgate (but not at the NIH) will be limited. There isn’t a lot of biomedical research at Colgate, but for me, that wasn’t important. I had the personal attention I wanted and learned the tools/techniques I needed to secure a biomed research position after Colgate.</p>
<p>PS. I also had multiple friends in the CS program at Colgate. One is currently at a top 10 CS PhD program and interning at google this summer. So I really have no idea your friend at Colgate was talking about.</p>
<p>Oldest daughter was a Bio-Chem major at Colagte, graduating in 2007. She did the semester at the NIH , which was the culminating experience of her Colgate career. Colgate is the only school in the country which offers a semester at the NIH in Washington, DC.</p>
<p>I recruit & hire many undergrads (from numerous colleges & universities) for my environmental consulting firm, and, albeit I’m a biased Colgate dad hence I’ve gotten to know their programs well, Colgate science majors have proven to be tops in my firm’s eyes…we’ve hired mainly geology & biology majors. The curricula and research experiences are great, and the top students usually do a thesis, which is not the norm for many other schools & we like such deep experience at that level. Bottom line- Colgate science undergrads, as hires, are easily on par with undergrads at other major research univeristies, Ivies, etc. Also, & I’m not exactly sure why this is so, more Colgate kids seem to show strong interpersonal skills, which is essential in consulting…so we generally have a higher “we’d really like to hire this kid” rate for Colgate applicants than for applicants from other perhaps more elite institutions.</p>