“…when outside of CC, very few people actually look up the common data set…” Sheesh, isn’t being under informed a worse issue? All these kids making assumptions and asking questions they could get answered, if only they researched their targets, in the first place? If you don’t, these misunderstandings are on you. Same with all the “disappointment” about fin aid, among people who assumed.
My kids went to a TO, everyone had to report scores before fall semester began. But we weren’t looking at admit chances based on stats alone. It wasn’t the one metric we assumed made them worthy applicants. We took holistic seriously and knew it wasn’t some vapor. You either do the whole match job or you don’t.
Nor do you get to insist this is all about ranking. You either get an idea what matters or you’ve pulled the wool over your own eyes. Blaming them, when you stopped short.
Maybe because of rampant grade inflation? If you attended a rigorous high school, your test scores can provide greater context to a lower GPA. That’s my guess.
Well @1NJParent , some students make feel scores don’t represent their ability, and that may be true. It may be as a result of anything from poor sending district, inability to prep or take more than once, LD, ELL, etc.
For others, they may - even when other factors do not. A non-native speaker who scores well on English, for example, is demonstrating a likely ability to handle the reading in a program.
Schools are asking students to make their best case for themselves. Many still want scores from all applicants while some feel they can sort through it without them. A kid who tests well will submit scores. Remember that when scores are not submitted, the assumption is that they are not that good so the rest of the application needs to be that much stronger.
Yes, both students and schools can use this to “game the system”, but at some level, it’s working for everyoneas well or it wouldn’t be becoming more widespread. Schools like Bowdoin started this in the early 80s, I believe!
I dunno. The premise here seems to be that up to a third of Bowdoin students sat for neither the SAT nor ACT. That’s not credible.
FWIW, At Wesleyan, a TO school that requires all matriculants to submit their scores - whether or not they did so at the time they applied - the published cds figures are very similar:
Should they not report rank among kids whose schools do report that, just because some hs don’t? They do show the % of applicants from schools that do and we didn’t have an issue extrapolating from that.
It’s kinda this: if you’re aiming lower, some of these points don’t matter. If you’re aiming higher, there’s much more to learn, in the first place.
We saw the score averages. And kept working on what match is.
[qoute] Yes, both students and schools can use this to “game the system”, but at some level, it’s working for everyoneas well or it wouldn’t be becoming more widespread. Schools like Bowdoin started this in the early 80s, I believe!
[/quote]
Even earlier! They haven’t had that spirit here since…1969.
I think it is pretty easy to figure out that a test optional school would not have that many SATs reported and the ones reported would be the good ones.
Too much worrying about gaming and not enough work on learning what does matter, all of it. You get seriously vetted regardless of whether scores are submitted. You don’t just get admitted to a Bowdoin or Wes based on how your hs graded you.
Inflation exists, sure. But let’s not confuse not needing to report scores with some sort of incompetence.
More like failing the “truth in advertising” standard, (which doesn’t apply to colleges anyway). So yes, I find that deceptive when colleges use test optional data to advertise their school to teens-it wouldn’t be allowed if they were selling laundry detergent, for example
Lol. “9 out of 10 dentists prefer Crest.” I alway have asked, “Over what? Sand?” It’s been caveat emptor since Barnum’s day. Maybe we should can the US News rand othet rankings, they’re dangerous to kids, too. Lol.
Yes, it is fraudulent when colleges are test-optional but still report test scores based on a fraction of the freshman class. It violates the spirit of the Student Right To Know Act and the goals of US Department of Education data collection. It should be illegal. These colleges are trying to deceive the public. It is unethical and dishonest. These schools should be denied federal aid. They are trying to hide something. The graduation rates at schools that require SAT tests is about 15% higher than at schools which are test-optional.
If a ranking system takes into account test scores, how is not gaming the ranking system by supplying highly distorted data? Some colleges clearly want their cake and eat it too.
I would consider it deceptive, if it was presented without data regarding what percentage of students reported scores. One of the skills top college are looking for is critical thinking. Those students who actually look at the CDS should be able to make some inferences about that data. 75% of the students who submitted scores and were accepted scored 1300 on the SAT - if your SAT scores are 1300 or higher, it probably won’t hurt to submit them. 1100, you might not want to report, and hope the rest of your application is strong. No, these scores do not represent the entire admitted pool, but if a student doesn’t apply because they think that college is out of their reach, it probably is out of their reach.
What some might consider deceptive is that students aren’t being told that SAT and ACT scores will still play a role in the process. Aside from the homeschool population, and international applications, students will be coming from high schools where a good percentage of their classmates are taking either the SAT or ACT. Your class rank (or GPA, if your school doesn’t rank) will be viewed in the context of those scores. If I look at the profile of the HS I attended, I can see that the mean SAT scores for the class 2015 were 590V, 615M and 85% went directly to 4 year colleges (so presumably the scores are a good reflection of the class, since the vast majority would have taken SAT or ACT).
A student with a 3.5 GPA from this school will be viewed differently from a student from a school where the mean scores were closer to 500, or even lower. They don’t need individual scores, except to identify the students who had lower GPA but test well - they still need to understand the material being tested to score well.
An interesting recent study that found that test-optional policies appear to have increased diversity, along with applications and yield, without resulting in lower graduation rates.
What difference does it make if the school is test optional? The whole point is that the applicant isn’t required to submit scores, so therefore that is not a necessary piece of information for admission.
What surprises me is how much people continue to obsess about test scores when there is evidence that colleges can select high performing students without them?
If you’ve done your research and have determined that the school is a good fit for you based on a whole host of criteria, academic and otherwise, why should one care that much about other students’ test scores?
If a test optional college is clear about their test optional policy, consider yourself duly notified that not every student’s score is likely represented in the stats on test scores.
"Yes, it is fraudulent when colleges are test-optional but still report test scores based on a fraction of the freshman class. It violates the spirit of the Student Right To Know Act and the goals of US Department of Education data collection. It should be illegal. These colleges are trying to deceive the public. It is unethical and dishonest. "
But, as @CTScoutmom points out, they say exactly what percentage of their students report. This is really good information if you don’t think your test scores are representative of your academic skills, right?
"These schools should be denied federal aid. They are trying to hide something. "
What could they possibly be trying to hide? How would that benefit them? This policy seems to really benefit the student. Certainly not the rankings, as US News discounts for that already:
“The graduation rates at schools that require SAT tests is about 15% higher than at schools which are test-optional.”
Now that is certainly a stat I would find useful in college selection. Of course I would want to compare peer schools when using that data, and not an average.