Hamilton offers a test flexible policy. Their class profile appears to be fully transparent with respect to reporting test scores. Notably, only 7% of matriculated students in the class of 2022 submitted test scores using the “3 Tests” option. The remaining 93% submitted traditional testing.
You can’t tell from the CDS if 52% of the students submitted both tests and 1% submitted the SAT only for a total of 53% submitting test scores, or if 100 % total submitted test scores in some combination.
Where does Bowdoin state that the CDS include test scores from all students? What if a student doesn’t take a standardized test?
Again, the CDS isn’t the only resource.
https://www.bowdoin.edu/admissions/apply/testing-policy.shtml
“all entering first-year students must submit scores over the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin.”
I googled “Bowdoin test optional policy”
Curious as to why it even matters with a college with Bowdoin academic chops and rigor? Do folks really think their child won’t be challenged? What’s the benefit of really knowing with that kind of granularity?
Bowdoin requests that matriculating students who were admitted under the test optional policy submit test scores during the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin. I’d expect the overwhelming majority of students took a standardized test, even if they did not submit them. However, if they have never taken the SAT/ACT, they could take it after having been admitted and seeing Bowdoin’s request.
The Bowdoin website states “all entering first-year students must submit scores over the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin” at https://www.bowdoin.edu/admissions/apply/testing-policy.shtml
And "Bowdoin changed its test score reporting policy from including only scores submitted for admission decisions to including all available scores for the entering Class" at https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/admissions.shtml .
The recent test scores on this page linked above clearly include the non-submitter during admission matriculating students who submitted scores during the summer prior to matriculating. The scores on this page match the CDS scores, so one can assume that the CDS reporting is for the same group.
Ironic, yeah.
It’s still not just about stats. Few who know the school think it’s gaming anything.
Do what you want, obviously. I was just passing along information. My kids’ school has a pretty good track record, so I’ll listen to them but YMMV.
The facts don’t need to be interesting to everyone. However, they should be essential for anyone who offers an opinion on the topic.
Through a change in reporting standards, Bowdoin’s SAT scores now represent the entire student body:
Currently Reported Middle Range (students entering fall 2017)
1290-1500
Reported Middle Range for Year Prior to Change (students entering fall 2015)
1355-1535
Very helpful. Thank you, merc81.
I’m site this has been said on this lengthy thread…
If you are concerned that your student’s SAT or ACT scores are not within range for a test optional school…don’t submit them.
End of problem.
Calmom, the higher average grad rate for schools that require SATs is a fact, not opinion. The US Dept of Ed data are the official stats for colleges and universities. I simply selected all schools with Carnegie classifications as research universities, masters universities, or liberal arts colleges (8 Carnegie classifications). Even when you eliminate online colleges like University of Phoenix the grad rate is about 8% higher for schools that require SATs.
Of course SATs do not “cause” higher grad rates directly. Statistics alone of any kind do not prove causation. Causation is determined by the research design. Correlation does not prove causation…neither does any other statistic. We are talking about prediction, not causation.
Would you buy a computer without knowing its processor and memory stats? Why would a reasonable person refuse to pay a few hundred dollars for a computer because technical specs are missing but spend tens of thousands of dollars on a college without knowing important technical specs? It seems ironic that a university or college of higher learning would Impede the public’s ability to learn about the school by promoting ignorance of its quality specifications. I think it is unethical.
I don’t buy the claim that some students can’t afford the SATs. It is a matter of priorities. I bet the family can afford smartphones. If schools are so concerned about affordability of SATs, why don’t they offer to pay for SATs for low-income students who otherwise qualify for admission? What’s more, why don’t they lower tuition? Put your money where your mouth is.
Data 10, what was the unit of analysis in the research you mentioned? Were they calculating statistics based on individual student data or aggregate college data (averages and percentages)? The outcomes for individual students are harder to predict with SATs than aggregate data but SATs are an excellent predictor of aggregate outcomes (+.81). It may be more difficult to reliably predict the success of particular students but average SATs are an excellent predictor of the overall success of the freshman class accounting for nearly two-thirds of the variance in grad rates among freshman classes nationwide.
@PetraMC : Presence of both the SAT and ACT can serve as substantiating (and therefore enhancing) data, even if one is somewhat “lower” than the other. If some don’t consider a dual submission to be potentially favorable, they should. I’m completely with you on this.
So the change for Bowdoin shows that it reported being a school where the midrange SAT scores were from the top 5% of test takers, to a school that actually has a midrange reflecting the top 10% of test takers. Still very good, but given the tens of thousands of students in each percentile, not quite the same.
S attends Wake Forest, one of the leaders in the “test optional” admissions world. He did provide his score (mid 1400s, no superscore). Although anecdotally, most of his friends were valedictorian, class president, leader of their school types. They are serious about holistic admissions as many kids are exceptional at things in addition to academics. An example - recently visited. Met one of S’s friends who was performing in the A Capella concert. Excellent singer. He was valedictorian, great baseball player on a very good team and is a fine musician. For his V speech he composed, played and sang to a weeping audience. Another friend, also a valedictorian, is an X degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. You get the drift. Appears to be no academic / quality student shortage due to test optional policy.
“why don’t they offer to pay for SATs for low-income students who otherwise qualify for admission? What’s more, why don’t they lower tuition? Put your money where your mouth is.”
- Because they obviously don't value the standardized test scores as highly as some people here on CC do as a predictor of college success, they realize they are biased, and they realize that all students don't test well and 2. they do lower tuition for many students through financial aid.
Adding: because participating in and paying for test prep is an even greater barrier than SAT/ACT cost
I haven’t read all of the thread, but wanted to comment about several posts which talk about a college’s graduation rate. I’m a little skeptical about that as a metric because I have a couple of friends that teach at lower end schools who say they are under tremendous pressure from administration not to give kids an F or a D.
Unfortunately, I need to correct an arithmetic error in the figures I posted for Bowdoin (reply #87):
Currently Reported Middle Range (students entering fall 2017)
1290-1500
Reported Middle Range for Last Year Prior to Change (students entering fall 2015)
1375-1535
Others can, and probably should, check my math: https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/admissions.shtml.
Your point (#92) remains the same, @roycroftmom.
Of course there are great students at all schools. No one is doubting that. All schools have some students who are extraordinary, whether in athletics, music, academics, extracurricular, or whatever. The issue is whether test optional schools are misrepresenting the ability of their students as standardized test takers. From the Bowdoin example, likely representative of other test optional schools, the answer is clearly yes.
Bowdoin’s currently Reported Middle Range (students entering fall 2017)
1290-1510
Reported Middle Range for Last Year Prior to Change (students entering fall 2015)
1375-1535
OK, then.