<p>as above.</p>
<p>i'm an international student and i've been accepted to a couple of schools. problem is i'm not sure what to expect, in terms of difficulty etc. i'm can't find any sort of standardized test for students going to college except for the SATs (i think there're the ACTs as well, but i haven't really looked at those). oh yeah and i'm looking at the subject tests specifically...</p>
<p>any idea ?</p>
<p>In general, I would say so. But not that the top colleges - for instance, don’t assume that MIT kids are merely “so-so” at Math just because their 25th percentile admit has a 720 SAT Math score.</p>
<p>720 is far from so-so…</p>
<p>@frankchn: so what are the APs for then ? and how many students on average take them ? i’m having a hard time believing that american students cover so little, in terms of depth and number of topics (especially in sciences and math) by the time they graduate HS at 17 (or is it 18 ?)</p>
<p>@doughboy090891: in a good way or a bad way ?</p>
<p>thanks for your replies so far!</p>
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<p>Well, it is good in terms of the entire high school graduating class at the 96th percentile - but that still means at least 60,000 people are at your score level or better.</p>
<p>tests can never present fully one’s potentials and academic achievements. So my suggestion is, you’d better forget the idea about tests-representing-academic-standards all together. Enjoy a ripping summer, then go to school, and tackle those courses as if you are fighting an enemy on battlefields. I’ll be awfully surprised if you, having done the mentioned above, don’t stand out. :D</p>
<p>We should keep in mind that the American educational system is markedly different from most other parts of the world, or at least Western Europe. </p>
<p>American high schools educate all students, from the gifted down to the mentally handicapped who need one-on-one attention. European secondary schools cater to a more specific subgroup of the population. The average high school student in Germany quits full-time education after 10th grade. Not all students in Britain complete A levels and not all French students take the Baccalaur</p>
<p>APs are quite similar to British Advanced Levels. And I think</p>
<p>nono, what i meant was: are the topics and depth of the SAT, is that similar to what is being taught in schools ? because britain has the A levels, which follows a fixed syllabus. so when you say that you have taken the A levels, people somewhat expect you to know certain maths/science concepts, since its a standardized exam. however i’m not sure what are the so-called “requirements” to obtain a high school diploma are, which is why i’m asking. are there set rules by a government body ? or do the respective high schools freely dictate what and how much they teach since each one has its own individual final year paper?</p>
<p>There are minimum requirements for a high school diploma that are set by the state, but they are very very low. That’s because American high schools are comprehensive schools that educate everyone. For example, the minimum amount of math required for a high school diploma from my old high school was a course that taught fractions, decimals, percentages, and “elementary algebra and geometry.” Some students will graduate with that amount of math, while others will take calculus, statistics and maybe a college math class.</p>
<p>An American high school diploma by itself does not mean very much. That’s why American colleges ask for transcripts, class ranks, SAT and AP scores to assess the background of an applicant.</p>
<p>I think they are biased towards U.S. students because they test the most important subjects in American education: Math, English/Writing, and Reading (and Science, if you include the ACT). Other countries may stress different subjects such as more science or more writing with less literature.</p>
<p>Also, things are written in American English. Grammar questions that concern idioms and the general flow of the sentence may be hard for students who speak or learn a different type of English.</p>
<p>b@r!um, do most students take the APs ? i just wanna know what kinda background knowledge most of my future classmates will be going in with, so i can at least level the playing field to a certain extent. and APs give credits that can be used for exemption from certain courses in college right ? or something like module exemption from the GCE A levels ?</p>
<p>2CHiLLaXiN, i’m just afraid that i may not have the same background knowledge as other students. i’m sure this will affect me somehow since i’ll be doing engineering (maths and physics prerequisites) and the SAT maths is pretty easy, which is why i asked.</p>
<p>At my old high school about 25% of the seniors took at least one AP math course. Slightly more students took AP courses in English and history.</p>
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That depends on the college. Most colleges cater to a very small subset of the general student population. At some colleges Calc 3 is considered a first-year intro course, while other colleges might start their students out with pre-calc algebra and geometry.</p>
<p>The “science” on the ACT isn’t really “science”, and the reasoning tests don’t really cover what is covered in the classroom. Theoretically at least, they are tests of “reasoning” ability rather than subject knowledge. I think the ACT, AP’s, and subject tests and come closer to course content, with the percentiles on the subject tests and AP’s reflecting a broader range of competency. Mind you, I have not personally taken the ACT, nor the subject tests.</p>
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If you have such worries, you’d better take a look at AMC-12 questions, see how difficult they seem to you. In my opinion most domestic students who are gifted in math or science take the AMC test and get fairly good scores.
I think AP tests don’t reflect what standards US high schools require either. It’s easy to cram for APs and score good without really understanding the contents. So for literature/history/philosophy and similar subjects, why not take a look at the Collegeboard list of 101 great books? The list might be vastly helpful for you to see to what depth a diligent domestic HS student has come. :)</p>
<p>^ thanks, ill look into that later. What about those students who dont take APs? Do they make it through college with ease or do they struggle alot? Im not that worried about the issue of coping atm, because I know ill put in sufficient effort when the time comes. Im more worried about courses that heavily depend on stuff that you guys learn in high school. Its different if they’ll be teaching stuff from scratch; I shouldn’t have an issue coping with that…</p>
<p>Thanks again</p>
<p>Lots of students don’t take APs. Some struggle, some don’t. Everything depends on the individual. In my observation, international students do just fine. If you are good enough to be admitted, you will be OK.</p>
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<p>Strictly speaking, AP exams are not required for college admission, but my feeling is most prospective engineering or math/science majors at the top elite universities (MIT, Harvard, etc.) take them before they graduate from High School. </p>
<p>Most colleges give university credit for AP exam results with a score of 5 (or, sometimes, even 4), allowing students to skip introductory freshman classes like Calculus I.</p>
<p>Hmm from looking at SAT subject tests and AP exams, the main difference I’ve noted is that the American exams seem to cover a wide variety of topics but in little depth. This is probably because the average American high school student studies a broad array of subjects, and when you take so many different courses, it’s hard to study anything in much depth. I noticed a similar thing when I did an exchange in France - the BAC content was quite simplistic, and because each student studied so many subjects, there was an emphasis on rote learning (even in BAC ES maths!) and not developing one’s own ideas.</p>