<p>Tarhunt
when a student has a specific goal in mind, perhaps you have to look deeper than the label of private U,public U, 1st tier,2nd tier,etc and investigate the specifics more deeply. This person should be looking at the creative writing/journalism/school of education first,the other criteria second.They should be looking at internship/practicum/writing opportunities;competition for editorial spots on the newspaper,readership surveys,radio and TV availability for internships.Should they go to the small LAC who publishes a weekly newspaper with a readership of 2,000 or a large institution that publishes daily with a readership of 50,000 or more,large classified and advertising/marketing departments for business experience? Look at the job placement records.
They should look into all their options and disregard the status labels.</p>
<p>I think a few of your criteria may have to be given up to find the closest fit. I'm thinking also of out-of-state public schools and two with excellent journalism programs come to mind: Univ of Missouri and Indiana University. Mizzou might be a stretch (I'm not too familiar with them but here in the mid-west for those who desperately want journalism and don't have the stats for Northwestern, then Mizzou is often the next choice). IU meets a lot of your criteria - beautiful green campus, excellent journalism program, education, BIG school spirit (b-ball tickets are on a lottery basis), very fun partying. You have to look a little harder to find the serious students but they're there. It's a match-safety for you.</p>
<p>cathymee:</p>
<p>I went back and reread the OP. The criteria were pretty constricting, but the one that stood out to me were schools where students have a passion for learning. That narrows things down a bit, because the OP's stats will not qualify for the sorts of schools where there are likely to be a large number of those types of students. Add in Div 1 football, an urban campus, etc., and the choices got extremely narrow.</p>
<p>Frankly, many of the colleges I ended up with on the list will not really provide atmospheres in which most students love learning. I have a niece who attended the University of Washington, for instance, and felt quite literally like a student number awash in a sea of apathy. She transferred.</p>
<p>I merely presented a list that was a place to start given the criteria given. The reason I can't recommend most state universities is that they tend not to attract students who have a love of learning. It's not their mission. They don't market that way. There are notable exceptions, of course, but all the ones I can think of are major stretches for the OP.</p>
<p>My daughter is attending NYU in the fall. She thought she wanted the green campus at first, too--and sports teams and all of that. But after visiting NYU and meeting people there, she changed her mind. It's certainly a fantastic atmosphere in which to learn and grow.</p>
<p>My impression is that the students are serious about learning but also know how to let loose in NYC.</p>
<p>It doesn't have Div. I sports, but it does have sports teams and is competitive in its Division (III, I believe).</p>
<p>It does meet many of your other criteria, such as excellent writing/arts/theater and education programs (Steinhardt School of Ed., Tisch School of the Arts are very well respected).</p>
<p>Tarhunt: I think your statement about state universities is too broad. See fredo's comment: one may have to look harder to find students there for "love of learning" but they are there. Of course, they are.</p>
<p>Students are attracted to state universities for many reasons --- financial, proximity to home, specialized programs, lower stats that might put other schools out of reach. At a big state university, the overall culture may not be what some students want --- too sports oriented, too frat-dominated, too party loving --- but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other students among those tens of thousands who are there for a myriad of different reasons. A very hard-working daughter of a friend went to Arizona State for Jewish studies. She is a serious student, not a party girl; she has learning disabilities which hurt her "stats" but she is definitely there to learn. You can find these students at any large state university. My opinion is also that even a huge state university can be made "small" once a student finds their niche --- which in the OP's case would be the newspaper-journalism program.</p>
<p>jazzymom:</p>
<p>I teach in a flagship state university. I'm very aware of the variance in academic focus and ability among the students. I never said all students at any school are one way or the other, but I can assure you that the general atmosphere at my school is anything but intellectual. In a class of 25-30 students, I will probably have (on average) 2-3 engaged, thoughtful, and eager students. My colleagues at other state schools of average student caliber concur.</p>
<p>Once again, the OP asked for very specific things. If you want to disregard those criteria then please help yourself. However, you have now opened his list up to every university in the country that offers certain majors since, at every university, one can find some students who are engaged and care about learning.</p>
<p>Tarhunt:
I think the OP is clever enough to know that my comments did not widen his search to every state university in the country with a writing or journalism program. I'm not even disagreeing with the well-reasoned list you described in an earlier post. The thing is, you didn't merely warn off the OP -- and hundreds of others who might read this thread -- from your own unnamed state university, with its minority of engaged students, you threw a blanket of condemnation on "most" state universities with a few exceptions. I object to the implication that serious students, not just the OP, should not consider "most" state universities unless they qualify for the honors programs because in your view there are so few students who have a passion for learning. For many students, the state universities are the best option they have and IMO, serious students can find like-minded peers on those campuses if they look for them.</p>
<p>jazzymom:</p>
<p>Here are some quotes from the OP:</p>
<p>"I noticed an academic intensity (at Whitman) and love for learnign that I had not seen at other schools."</p>
<p>"I am a big fan of the work hard, play hard mantra."</p>
<p>"I got a lot of suggestions, but most were schools that were way out of my reach."</p>
<p>"I really liked Whitman because the academic atmosphere was much more intellectual than that at other schools. I am not a big fan of cut-throat academics...rather students that are passionate about learning."</p>
<p>The OP wants a Division 1 football school where students are passionate about learning. Semantically, when a person uses an "allness" term like "students" without modification, it almost always means a general atmosphere of passion for learning. If the OP had said "where I can find SOME students who are passionate about learning," then I would have said that any school will do just fine, because any school will have some of those people.</p>
<p>Are there publics that meet or come close to his implied criterion of "general" passion for learning? Yes. Virginia, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA and maybe a few others. The OP is not likely to be admitted to any of them, though it is not out of the question if there is in-state status.</p>
<p>As I said, I teach at a flagship state university. I got my undergrad degree at a flagship state university. I have been a professor at three schools while chasing tenure. I go to many conferences where I discuss undergrad student involvement with my colleagues, many of whom work at state universities. I have a fair number of data upon which to base my conclusions and, absent conflicting data, I think I will stick to those conclusions.</p>
<p>I am a big supporter of state schools. I believe that the public system of higher education in America is unprecedented in world history, and marks the high-water mark of education. The research opportunities for students are boundless. Anyone with a thirst for learning will find an ocean he or she cannot possibly drain. State schools offer almost limitless higher education opportunities to practically everyone, even if through the community college transfer route.</p>
<p>But the OP asked for a particular atmosphere where students (the allness term) "are passionate about learning." The OP will not find this atmosphere at most state universities. There are clearly students who are passionate about learning at at any school (and about 10% to a max of 20% at my school), but it is not the rule. I would venture that the average undergrad at my institution attends to get a degree to open job opportunities, party, recreate, and make friends. There is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone is cut out to have a passion for learning. </p>
<p>You are assuming that not having a passion for learning is a value judgment. It is not. The OP simply asked for something rather rare, given his stats, and I pointed out that issue.</p>
<p>I would advise state schools like Wisconsin, Georgia and Illinois. Great academics and great exit opportunities, but also plenty of booze, babes and sports. You can't really go wrong.</p>
<p>I wouldn't mess with random LACs.</p>
<p>Penn State- They have the Schreyer Honors College if you want more academically oriented people, and also a great communications program (something I think I'm looking for aswell).
It fits all of your criteria (no program is over 25K, GREAT sports/parties) execpt for being and urban campus. I'm currently thinking about attending Penn Sate but previously had some inhabitions regarding it due to my similar strong desire to be in a large city. However, after visiting the campus a couple times, I found that I really like it. Philly and Pittsburgh are only 3 hours away each, so either could work into the occasional weekend trip. Also, every time I mention to an adult my want to be on a urban campus, I get almost exactly the same response: that I will be too caught up in the whole college scene to even have time to notice that I'm in a city. And if I do, that it might end up being a distraction. </p>
<p>I suggest narrowing colleges down to the most necessary of your criteria-maybe only leaving out location. That should give you some more reasonable options. Then visiting them! That's truely the best ways to see how you'd like a college.</p>
<p>Actually, how about Pitt? Semi-urban campus (cute neighborhood in Pittsburgh with college-town atmosphere), decent honors college, state school (but not as large as Penn St.). Div. 1 football and basketball.</p>
<p>Not necessarily a temple of the intellect for 100% of the students, but a fair number of serious students go there. It also has an excellent creative writing program. My D was in the PA Governor's School for the Arts fiction writing program, which was very selective and had serious writers. About half of her group is now at Pitt -- it was definitely the state school of choice for writers.</p>
<p>UVA or Washington & Lee would fit the bill. Actually, find a traditionally "Southern" school (which often codes for, um, Southern hospitality and a good time) that fits your other criteria, and you might have found the place for you.</p>
<p>The OP doesn't have the numbers for UVA and W&L, hence my suggestion of UGA (a very good school!).</p>
<p>University of Iowa</p>
<p>they have a very large undergrad population
BIG time football .. LOVE THE HAWKEYES
a GREAT writing program (one of the best in the nation)
easy to get in to
Iowa City is awesome
Beer and Hard Liquor is everywhere, PR agrees.</p>
<p>Good suggestion, bica. The creative writing program is definitely well-known and the party scene sounds pretty good.</p>
<p>U.Maryland is indeed in College Park -- but the post lists nearby major cities for each school; last I checked, Washington DC was the nearest major city</p>
<p>I'll probably get completely flamed for this - but isn't College Park a bit... sketchy? Green line - not so great? Little unsavoury? Rough around the edges?</p>
<p>why would you get flamed? Its true. I get off the red line from sunny rich moco Maryland and get on the red line to PG county maryland and there is a clear difference in the type of people on the train. The area around UMD in not so great. Some say UMD itself is ugly for that reason but that isn't true. UMD is looks fantastic on campus and has big open areas that make the campus look nice. It isn't like college park itself. College park is not nearly as bad as other parts of that county. I have been on the orange line once and I felt I had to make it known to the people around me that I had no money on me.</p>
<p>I would definitely agree on W&L and also add University of Richmond. W&L in particular has the "speaking tradition" in which students continually greet eachother in passing. Both schools seem to attract well-rounded, intelligent, hardworking students who are interested in balance.</p>
<p>W&L is D3 and is prob out based on the OPs's stats but Richmond is DivI (go Spiders) and OP might be in the range. Richmond is also the capital of the Commonwealth so transportation is relatively easy. The Eastern Seaboard Corridor Amtrak stops in Richmond and I think there is a small airport.</p>