Are unpaid internships illegal

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@Flossy

Well, supporting a kid for a summer does not exactly require wealth. Plenty of kids do unpaid internships who are not wealthy by any definition.

</p>

<p>Perhaps they are not “wealthy” by the definition commonly used on these forums (where $200,000+ family income is merely “middle class”)?</p>

<p>Plenty of college students need to earn money in paid jobs to help finance their schooling, so taking an unpaid internship would be difficult financially for them. Also, if the unpaid internship is away from the family home, then room and board costs to do that are likely to be higher than supporting the student in the family home.</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>

@cptofthehouse

My brother barely got into law school got into one not even accredited (but got accredidation later), and though it took him some time, became a wildly successful lawyer who now has his own multi million dollar practice and loves his job and company.

</p>

<p>But is the law job market today like that of a generation ago? I.e. have opportunities for law jobs generally decreased since then, and have the law jobs become more law-school-prestige-conscious since then?</p>

[Flossy]

<p>Right, I didn’t say it would be free. But there’s a whole lot of ground between dirt poor and wealthy. Most people live somewhere in the middle and can figure out how to fund a summer if they really want to go that route. It might be difficult. It might involve a loan or a credit card or a part-time job or some extra overtime, or whatever. It’s not usually impossible. That doesn’t mean I like the idea of unpaid internships, but people are more creative than some on these forums seem to think.</p>

[GMTplus7]

<p>

Ha. Our congressmen and senators have internships galore that are unpaid. 

</p>

<p>@cpt, that’s no way to speak about our important lawmakers who are slaving away to ensure that all animals are equal-- it’s just that some animals are more equal than others…</p>

[Hunt]

<p>I think there are two issues here. First, many of the unpaid internships aren’t really internships at all, and violate the law by taking the place of paid work. But the second issue is that even if the internship is run properly and provides real training, etc., it still serves as a barrier to employment in the field for people who can’t afford to do unpaid work.</p>

[suzy100]

<p>I work for a fairly large company that used to offer a lot of unpaid internships but no longer will do it because of the risk.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>Interesting:</p>

<p><a href=“Ex-intern suing David Letterman over ‘unpaid’ work | Page Six”>http://pagesix.com/2014/09/08/ex-intern-suing-david-letterman-over-unpaid-work/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And then, 2 days later:</p>

<p><a href=“AOL - Finance News & Latest Business Headlines - AOL.com”>http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2014/09/11/david-letterman-late-show-lawsuit-dropped/?icid=maing-grid7|maing7|dl34|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D527851&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I wonder if she caught a lot of flak for filing the lawsuit.</p>

[halfemptypockets]

<p>^^^More likely an out of court settlement.</p>

[Hanna]

<p>“My brother barely got into law school got into one not even accredited (but got accredidation later), and though it took him some time, became a wildly successful lawyer who now has his own multi million dollar practice and loves his job and company.”</p>

<p>And I know some people who bought lottery tickets and won. It doesn’t make the lottery a smart bet.</p>

[Gator88NE]

<p>

In the case of Walling v. Portland Terminal Co., the United States Supreme Court held that one such exemption to the federal requirements exists for people who work for their personal advantage rather than that of their employer. Such person may be considered a trainee instead of an employee for purposes of federal law. In this seminal court case, the Supreme Court looked to six factors in deciding whether a work program was for the intern’s own educational benefit or the advantage of their employer.</p>

<p>Here are the six factors considered by the Court:
**

1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern.</p></li>
<li><p>The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff.</p></li>
<li><p>The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.</p></li>
<li><p>The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship.</p></li>
<li><p>The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.**

</p></li>
</ol>

<p><a href=“6 Legal Requirements For Unpaid Internship Programs”>http://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2013/04/19/6-legal-requirements-for-unpaid-internship-programs/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[oldfort]

<p>100% of Stanford law graduates were placed this year with 160k salary. </p>

[mathmom]

<p>

4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.

This is the real sticking point. No intern wants to be doing things that don’t provide advantages to the people they are working for. They want to be useful and get good recommendations and or networking opportunities out of the experience. No company really wants interns that are more trouble than they are worth, though there is always a learning curve with new kids.</p>

<p>My S2 is doing an unpaid internship right now. Luckily he can live at home so his only real expense is a monthly train pass. He worked this summer so he had a bit of savings to fall back on. He’s working for a non-profit, but I’m pretty sure if they had to they could find money for the interns if they were forced to. As far as I can tell he’s been doing useful and interesting work from Day 1. He’s learning a lot, but they are getting a lot too.</p>

[soccerguy315]

<p>

Well, reality is that political internships have no shortage of willing unpaid interns, just like many other types of commonly unpaid internships. Any stated justification is just a cover for or sugar-coating of the fact that the market clearing entry level pay rate for that type of job is zero.

</p>

<p>I bet the “big 4” would have plenty of willing unpaid interns also.</p>

[PurpleTitan]

<p>YHSCCN + UPenn still seem to have good employment outcomes for the majority of their grads these days. Otherwise, if you truly want to go to law school, I’d advise taking the big merit money (which some of the T14 offer now; obviously to the most desirable candidates; BTW, Georgetown’s placement rates are so bad that they really shouldn’t be considered T14 these days).</p>

<p>However, I still wouldn’t understand why you’d want to go down that path. Most lawyers in Big Law hate their lives. And $160K really isn’t that much compared to other possible career paths.</p>

<p>In any case, if a company/industry values your labor so little that it won’t pay you, you should probably consider another company/industry or go work for yourself.</p>

[DrGoogle]

<p>Stanford law graduates may have done well recently because it’s next to Silicon Valley. There is a tech boom and companies like Sonsini(sp?) need lawyers. When the tech burst in 2000, there were lots of layoffs, even graduates from schools like UCB Law were not considered good enough, if I remember reading correctly in the news.</p>