<p>To state the obvious, parents see their children as reflections of themselves as well as reflections of their parenting skills. Therefore, they feel the need to assert that Junior turned out exceedingly well, and is so mature, responsible and good at everything, just like his mom and dad, blah blah blah. Some parents deliberately lie, exaggerate, or selectively recount facts in order to reassure themselves Junior is great and to impress you. Some parents are honest, but deceived. The proof is in the pudding, though, and at least as far as academic achievement and athletic prowess are concerned, soon enough you’ll find out how great these kids really are by seeing their admissions and recruiting results. One child was always oh-so-talented in soccer–a reputation perpetuated by the child, her parents, and half the town. She was going to play for UNC one day, which is the premier program for women’s soccer. Didn’t happen and not even close. If you wait long enough, the truth will come out.</p>
<p>frazzled1:
</p>
<p>What about the environment, peer group? It is a documented fact that parent favor one child over other in all households. One can never act similarly to all other humans as it is not in human nature.
So parent end up favoring one over other and that can cause issues with the child up bringing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I always maintained that every human have their flaws and so do DD, DW and I.
There are no model citizens and no one correct way to raise children. My point was that children are not born evil and tagging them as such is wrong.</p>
<p>Some parent call their children bad just because their expectations from them are different. So you need to understand your children and their limitations, flaws.</p>
<p>One can’t treat all children the same way because all children are not the same. I assure you that my sister-in-law and her husband did not reserve all their best parenting for the easy child and systematically set about raising a mess in the other one.
It is? Sorry, I don’t buy it. Our children have been treated very differently depending upon family needs and individual personality traits. Each of them would tell you that one of the others was the favorite. 
I responded to your comment because I am aware every day of how unfair life is, and I find it sad that parents with problem children are thought by so many to have created those problems.</p>
<p>Not that this whole nature/nurture thing has much to do with the original question about whether parents are honest in how they represent their children to friends and acquaintances. My take on it is that some folks need to be at the top of every pecking order and don’t mind misrepresenting themselves or their children to get there. I’ve heard people utter whopping lies about their kids’ accomplishments without turning a hair. Maybe they’ve convinced themselves that it’s all true - or else they’re just positive that it should be true.</p>
<p>I for one really admire parentofivyhopeful (now that’s a mouthful!) 's willingness to tempt fate. Hubris! is dangerous. imho.</p>
<p>Jimmy Buffett wrote a song with the lyrics, ‘we are the people our parents warned us about.’ </p>
<p>The point being that poll after poll shows that people believe that most drivers are mediocre yet they (themselves) are better than most. Why should we think it’s any different than their views of their children?</p>
<p>ctyankee-- I wished that worked with how I look in a dress!</p>
<p>POIH, when you quoted me you left out the enormous giant smiley that I put at the end of my comment. Given your comments, you didn’t seem to pick up on how I was making a joke. </p>
<p>I’m rather taken aback by a parent who has an only child telling other parents about how they must be favoring one child over another.</p>
<p>POIH said: "Nature gave our children genes but we give all the idosyncracies in this world from religion, culture, and academic to our children.'</p>
<p>Literally untrue. It’s mostly nature plus a kid’s unique environment, with a little parental nurture thrown in.</p>
<p>“Everyone concludes that to grow the best children, parents must be loving, authoritative and talkative, and if children do not turn out well, it must be the parents’ fault. But the conclusions depend on the belief that children are blank slates. Parents, remember, provide their children with genes, not just a home environment.”</p>
<p>“General intelligence is substantially heritable and so are the five major ways in which personality can vary (summarised by the acronym OCEAN): openness to experience, conscientiousness, extroversion-introversion, antagonism-agreeableness and neuroticism. And traits that are surprisingly specific turn out to be heritable, too, such as dependence on nicotine or alcohol, number of hours of television watched and likelihood of divorcing.”</p>
<p>“In measuring the relative effects of a shared and a unique environment we find that the effects of shared environment are small, often not statistically significant, and frequently zero. Whatever experiences siblings share by growing up in the same home within a given culture makes little or no difference to the kind of people they turn out to be.
All things being equal, children turn out the same way whether their mothers work or stay at home, whether they are placed in daycare or not, whether they have siblings or are only children, whether their parents have a conventional or an open marriage, whether their conceptions were planned, were accidental or took place in a test tube, and whether they have two parents of the same sex or one of each.”</p>
<p>From Stephen Pinker interviews and his book The Blank Slate:</p>
<p>We do what we can with the hand that fate provided us.</p>
<p>But there was no way on earth I could make my DD to suddenly dislike taking risks, or convince risk-averse DS to suddenly take uphang gliding. They - mostly - are who they are.</p>
<p>Kei</p>
<p>Kei-o-lei:
No two human are same and the natural instinct or characteristics will be different from person to person. So there will be difference between their natural capabilities which are defined by genes but comes from nurturing also.</p>
<p>But that doesn’t make a person good or bad. What makes human good or bad are the so called societal values which are artificial to begin with and man made. And the children are molded into one form of such values or the other which make them so called good or bad.</p>
<p>Take for example religion. Nature or genes don’t give birth to a Christian/Muslim/etc child but the parent or society tag them as such and then brain wash them with all the agenda of that man made sect. This transform a human child to something else. </p>
<p>If parent or society just let the children be human then most of them will turn out to be a good one. We all in one way or the other tries to mold children into our own agenda which causes all the problems. Fanatics/Extremists are not born but made into one by the parent/society/culture.</p>
<p>I don’t have absolute control over my children, nor do I want to create a child that I could have controlled that much. My children are not a reflection of me (though sometimes I forget this). I do my best, like most parents, but how one’s children “turn out” is a complex mix of factors, due to parenting (some conscious and controlled; some completely subconscious and just as influential but not under one’s parenting control), some due to innate abilities/wiring/personality, and the bigger environment in its many forms. But my kids have unique personalities, quirks, strengths, desires, and ways to see the world which interacts with everything else. They as much create their environment by their actions and choices as the other way around. </p>
<p>I have always liked the gardening analogy of parenting. So my children get ‘watered and lots of sun’ - support, nurturing, safe environment with mostly love on the good days. But there are some rainy days and windy ones too sometimes. And while I try to use only organic pesticides, occasional they get the odd dead leaf or bug I need to pick off. But they are mostly turning into the wonderful blossoms they were meant to be, though I would say in ways I could never predict nor seek to mould. </p>
<p>I suppose I’ve gone through times of wishing my child was say a rose or a sunflower as it became evident they were really tulips and daisies…I might have even thought if I changed the fertilizer or put them in a different part of the garden, they might evolve into the rose or sunflower I thought I could create. But they have a mind of their own and wow, they are such healthy and happy tulips and daisies who love their life! So why do I care for them to be any different? </p>
<p>I feel very fortunate to live in part of the world where I don’t have to base my judgment of ‘how my children turned out’ or what kind of parent am I based on stuff like SAT scores, APs or which ranking of college my child gets into. And I’ve had ridiculous success in my own life so I don’t need my children’s “success” to prove something. Been there, done that…I just want my offspring to be independent, good people who are happy. </p>
<p>My children are far from perfect. They swear sometimes, and yell. They can be very stubborn, lazy and not self-disciplined. They completely disagree with my opinion on a lot of things. But I am also stubborn, and can yell, and some days I just can’t bring myself to get work done. I could go on and on…they are very much human (just not worth writing about). </p>
<p>I’ve already come to terms with the fact that they won’t go to the Olympics, publish before college nor win any kind of national award. In fact I’ve come to terms with the fact that they aren’t interested in working so hard in HS so that they can go to Ivy League. It’s just not important enough to them, nor us, to retake an SAT, take an AP they aren’t interested in, spend summers indoors. Maybe I’m delusional and only time will tell, but my sense is they will be very happy and successful in their own way without sacrificing a fun and relaxing childhood. </p>
<p>By CC standards my expectations are probably wacko and too low. I feel very proud and fortunate of basic things like the fact that my children are respectful of people and like to read books and follow the news. That they seem mostly well adjusted and happy and roll well with bumps. That they demonstrate empathy and seem to value things that are greater than making money, having status or making appearances. They have enviable close relationships with very good friends and don’t do drugs or stay out late. I like that they love some subjects in school, do their homework, and will eventually figure out how to have a career they love that will support them financially. If they grow into adults who are happy, able to take care of themselves, and have strong bonds with other people in their life, how or why should I ask for anything more?</p>
<p>starbright: I like the gardening analogy too. You are doing a good job and raising good human. That is what we need more. Good human and nothing else.</p>
<p>starbright thanks for that post. It came on the right day for me. My little tulip just walked out the door to do some serious rock climbing instead of cramming for the SATII this weekend. I need to be at peace with that. She’s gonna be fine.</p>
<p>I liked Starbright’s analogy very much, indeed.</p>
<p>And frankly, ParentofIvyHope, there are so many holes in your argument that I don’t know where to start except in the search for some needle and thread.</p>
<p>But I will agree that we do play “favorites” in this house. Problem with the theory is that every day it’s a different child! Both of the girls have complained we favor the son, oldest claims favoritism of youngest, Son claims favoritism of the girls. Youngest USED to say we forget about her, until this year when she has every bit of our attention 24/7 because she is the last at home. They are such very different people there is no way they could be treated equally in all ways on all days. It just doesn’t work like that.</p>
<p>I have only a few friends with whom I can be completely honest with about the highs and lows of parenting. I am so grateful that not only do they have patient ears, but good advice… and too… we’ve gone through all the kids and so every once in a while I’ll ask for the advice I gave HER when it was her issue and I wasn’t so close to the situation. </p>
<p>And yes… I too love how many non-drinking kids there are on CC. Of course, what I love most is that not only do the kids NEVER drink, but that everyone else is one step away from rehab with absolutely no self-control whatsoever!</p>
<p>GFG and Downtoearth, I think your honesty regarding your kids is both sincere and smart. If it does not match many of your friends, those are probably people with whom you should spend less time, at least until after admissions madness ends, when perhaps they will be able to discuss something other than their kids’ great qualities. GFG, in particular, your friends who are not comfortable hearing of your special needs child’s problems strike me as false friends, for real friends would know that, even if it makes them uncomfortable, you benefit from being able to discuss those issues frankly and they should be focused on your need, not their own discomfort.</p>
<p>GFG, I would caution against reading too much into admission results as proof of what these kids’ real merits are: although many on CC think someone is insane if they do not attend the most prestigious school which accepts them, others value fit over prestige, or have to make decisions based on finances. Of course, if these parents have been boasting of how their kids are headed to the Ivy League, without mentioning any concerns about fit or finances, I can see how their winding up at a much less prestigious school would likely be seen as proof they were exaggerating all along.</p>
<p>Back to the OP’s original question: are we being honest. </p>
<p>I think yes, for the most part though there is some selective memory involved, I’m sure. My DS did not sleep through the night until 11 (no, not days, weeks or months) years, and one of us woke up with him practically every night.</p>
<p>But that’s all in the past, and doesn’t effect my current discussions of him. And probably wouldn’t even have then. His night issues were not a campaign mounted against us, but a problem he was having. We chose to get up with him, and I’m glad we did. He was terrified.</p>
<p>Somewhere along the way he got a truckload of testosterone and is not afraid of anything now. (Poetic license, exaggeration.)</p>
<p>I can honestly say that both of my kids were so positive, so open and so kind that their normal psychological resistances never gave me a second of pause.</p>
<p>They are great company, my best friends, and I miss them terribly.</p>
<p>Hey, maybe if I tried to remember some bad times, it would help! Nope, nothing bad enough. Doesn’t help.</p>
<p>
Of course! Children just naturally love to share, are empathetic and kind, considerate and understanding of differences, quiet and studious, self-controlled and able to plan for the future. It’s the nasty grownups who foul everything up. </p>
<p>You may wish to re-read “Lord of the Flies.”</p>
<p>Thanks for your kind words, yabeyabe2. Yes, right after I posted I realized I shouldn’t have used the admissions results example for exactly the reasons you state. I was just trying to say that there will be opportunities for objective verifiication of what these parents say about their kids, such as if mom brags her son is a straight-A student but his name is mysteriously missing from the honor roll, or if dad says daughter got near perfect scores on the PSAT but somehow she isn’t on the published list of commended or semifinalists, then you will learn the truth. Also, know that really competitive parents will do the same “fact-checking” about us. I remember when my son won an essay contest and his essay was published in the local paper. A handful of acquaintances told me they didn’t believe he had written it himself, and implied that I had done it. One person came back to me years later, after son had received publicity for other objective academic accomplishments and admitted that now he realizes D did do it.</p>
<p>And yes, this is the season to stay away from the competitive, jealous sorts. I just got an e-mail from a “friend” who wanted to tell me how very terrible the state and surrounding area was for one of my D’s top college choices. The portrayal was so over-the-top extreme I had to laugh. This from the same person who likes to imply that my D will need academic remediation if she ends up at a top school. Sigh.</p>
<p>Doug- there is a new book out by Dan Senor and Saul Singer about why Israel has a higher rate of successful start ups than any other country, none of which can be explained by the traditional metrics economists use. Although I haven’t read the book yet (sitting on my nightstand along with 20 other books I need to read) apparently part of their theory is that the Israeli Army (mandatory service- men and women) is notable for having little structure, young soldiers are constantly being told “figure it out” vs. having the solutions handed to them by their commanding officers, and ingenuity (both technical and organizational) is highly prized. They contend that as all these former soldiers get out there in the real world, they take their ability to fix things, wing it, make-do, improvise, etc. and end up starting and launching successful companies.</p>
<p>So take heart. Starting fires with a potato sounds like an encouraging way to start a military career. And when you get interviewed by CNN as your son is being named to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, it will make for a very fun anecdote!!!</p>
<p>GFG… </p>
<p>Are you telling me that someone wrote you an email to tell you that the school your daughter is considering is an ill fit AND that if she gets into a tough school, she won’t be able to hack it academically and will need help? </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Everyone has an opinion. Doesn’t make them valid. What she thinks of state, county, region of schools is nothing but opinion.</p></li>
<li><p>How the hell does she know how your kid is going to do in school? Why would anyone make such a statement about someone else’s kid unless it’s their teacher or counselor??</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As Dr Phil often asks, what’s her payoff here? To me it’s pretty wacked.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe we have the same “friend”. I just got a similar e-mail about Tulane after my son was admitted (bad air quality, full of mold, still hasn’t recovered from the hurricane, taking more lower level kids than ever before). I really don’ t know if she was trying to be helpful…I suppose it is possible.</p>