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Interesting that you've started two threads that have ended in how Russia is not European for some reason. Got something against the great Russian nation?
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<p>No, I love Russia, but I think historically and culturally, Russia has not been European for more than a couple of centuries. People seem to include them as European mostly because many Russians are pale-skinned Caucasians, which I don't think is good enough to define a continent. Look at North America: it consists of whites, blacks, and Latinos. Look at Asia: it consists of so many different ethnicities and races that I can't comprehend how Persians, Indians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Maoris could be considered to be of one people, the Asians.</p>
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Russia hasn't much of a democratic past, but it has certainly integrated to an arguably greater extent with Europe than Turkey has...at least in recent years. It's easy to forget, however, that the Ottoman Empire was considered a major European power as recently as the 17th century. Still, it's possible to argue that the Turks have grown increasingly distant from Europe since the early 20th century while the Russians have grown increasingly closer.
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<p>Russia was the great bogeyman of the West for most of the 20th century, so I don't see how they integrated so well with Europe (after all, when we speak of Europe, we think of capitalistic Western Europe). And as of right now, Turkey is probably more democratic than Russia is, though I may be wrong on this. </p>
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No, but neither did the Greeks really play a pivotal role and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would deny the Greeks European status.
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<p>The (Ancient) Greeks inspired the Renaissance, and Western values are derivative of Greek ideals (note the term "ideals", not reality). If there were no Greeks, Western civilization would probably be defined as something wholly else.</p>
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As was pointed out in the previous thread...for a long time. Moscow, for example, is a clear example of a modern Western-style city.
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<p>So what? Alexandria, Istanbul, and Tokyo have been Western style cities for a long time as well. </p>
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What I think is more important is what part of what could be deemed the most important part of Russia lies in Asia. Moscow, St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, Samara...Many important Russian cities lie in the European portion of the country. The only major Siberian Russian city I can even think of is Novosibirsk.
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<p>Istanbul, a city whose importance to European affairs cannot even begin to be overstated, is in Turkey and in Europe. I may be displaying ignorance of Turkish affairs, but I doubt any other city in Turkey comes close to the significance of Istanbul.</p>
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But actually, now that I think about it...why the push to de-Europeanize Russia???
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<p>I'm trying to get people to understand continents as cultural/historical entities, not racial ones. Let's face the truth: Russia is more accepted than Turkey because they're whiter. Of course, it's a common fallacy to think that all Turks look like Osama bin Laden when the historical influx of Eastern Europeans into Turkey has diluted the bloodline, but the truth is besides the point. Europe seems to be the only continent bent on defining itself through race, which reeks of a hidden sense of superiority to me. Look at North America, South America, and Asia: from Amerindians to English colonists to Africans to Italians to Koreans to Filipinos to Maoris, such diverse people inhabit these hodgepodge lands. And nobody really has a problem with it, except for maybe the old-school Asian mother who screams at her son for not bringing home an Asian girl ("Indians aren't Asians!!!!!!!"). Europeans value their whiteness so much (after all, they've spent the last couple of centuries spreading that kind of propaganda) that they fear any kind of intrusion into their exclusive continent.</p>