Are you obsessed with rankings? Of course you are! You're on CC.

briantheman · July 31, 2007, 1:24am

Vanderbilt & Emory Comparison (As viewed by USNWR Rankings "System"):

Whenever I hop on these forums, I come across some people arguing about Emory vs. Vanderbilt. I usually drop a fact or two because I have this weird view that if you're going to build an argument you should have some of these "fact" things ready to go. This is to help either side.

Notes to heed before perusing:
- The USNWR Rankings System is ridonkulous. Anyone that takes them seriously much less utilizes them in a college search in any way other than an initial compilation of prospective schools is just plain crazy.

<ul>
<li>Vanderbilt has four undergraduate schools which average the net undergraduate statistics. The school of Arts & Sciences (the largest and the typical) is the school which is in the vast majority of cases being reviewed by prospective students whom are aspiring to enroll in the typical Top 20 schools. The A&S school is always more selective on paper than the others (HUGE note: that is not to say the others are easy acceptances. These schools are all highly self-selecting pools and few students apply that are not reasonable acceptances from the get go). Example:
Class of 2011 Statistics:
School: Admit Rate / Mid-50% SAT / Mid-50% ACT / (Additional Info)
A&S: 28.44% / 1360-1510 / 31-33 / (90.1% top 10% / 1407 average SAT / 31 average ACT)
Blair School of Music: 40.65% / 1280-1470 / 29-33
Engineering: 44.72% / 1360-1510 / 31-34
Peabody School of Education: 46.50% / 1270-1410 / 28-32
Net: 32.48% / 1340-1510</li>
<li>Both are outstanding universities but soundly different (i.e. The pure atmosphere: While both are in major U.S. cities, few people refute the fact that Vanderbilt has much more of a "residential college feel").</li>
<li>I have bias.</li>
</ul>

<hr>

Vanderbilt 2005-2006 (Class of '09 on which USNWR 2007 Rankings are based):
11663 Students Applied
4115 Accepted (35.2% Rate [THIS value has a 1.5% weight in the OVERALL ranking.])
1622 Matriculate (39.4% Yield)

SAT Verbal Mid-50%: 630-720
SAT Math Mid-50%: 650-740
SAT Writing
ACT Composite Mid-50%: 28-33
ACT English Mid-50%: 29-34
ACT Math Mid-50%: 27-33
(Scores have a 7.5% weight in the OVERALL ranking.)

% first-year students with SAT Verbal Scores in 700-800 Range: 41.3
% first-year students with SAT Verbal Scores in 600-699 Range: 47.5
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 700-800 Range: 51.5
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 600-699 Range: 41.3
SAT Writing
SAT Writing

% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 30-36 Range: 62.1
% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 24-29 Range: 33.0
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 30-36 Range: 65.0
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 24-29 Range: 30.0
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 30-36 Range: 47.9
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 24-29 Range: 44.2

% in top tenth of high school graduation class: 81 (THIS value has a 6% weight in the OVERALL ranking.)
% in top quarter of high school graduation class: 93

% who had GPA of 3.75 and higher: n/a
% who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74: n/a

These numbers landed Vanderbilt a rank of 26 in Selectivity.

Freshman to Sophomore retention (THIS value has a 4% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 95%
6-Year Graduation rate (THIS value has a 16% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 88%

These numbers landed Vanderbilt a rank of 30 in Graduation and Retention.

Peer Assessment (THIS value has a 25% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 4.1

<hr>

Emory 2005-2006 (Class of '09 on which USNWR 2007 Rankings are based):
12011 Students Applied
4395 Accepted (36.6% Rate [THIS value has a 1.5% weight in the OVERALL ranking.])
1259 Matriculate (28.6% Yield)

SAT Verbal Mid-50%: 640-730
SAT Math Mid-50%: 660-740
SAT Writing
ACT Composite Mid-50%: 29-33
ACT English Mid-50%: n/a
ACT Math Mid-50%: n/a
(Scores have a 7.5% weight in the OVERALL ranking.)

% first-year students with SAT Verbal Scores in 700-800 Range: 32.4
% first-year students with SAT Verbal Scores in 600-699 Range: 54.1
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 700-800 Range: 45.4
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 600-699 Range: 47.3
SAT Writing
SAT Writing

% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 30-36 Range: 46.6
% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 24-29 Range: 49.2
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 30-36 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 24-29 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 30-36 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 24-29 Range: n/a

% in top tenth of high school graduation class: 90 (THIS value has a 6% weight in the OVERALL ranking.)
% in top quarter of high school graduation class: 98

% who had GPA of 3.75 and higher: 48.5
% who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74: 32.6

These numbers landed Emory a rank of 15 in Selectivity.

Freshman to Sophomore retention (THIS value has a 4% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 94%
6-Year Graduation rate (THIS value has a 16% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 89%

These numbers landed Emory a rank of 25 in Graduation and Retention.

Peer Assessment (THIS value has a 25% weight in the OVERALL ranking.): 4.0

<hr>

Vanderbilt 2006-2007 (Class of '10 on which USNWR 2008 Rankings are based):
12189 Students Applied
4128 Accepted (33.8% Rate)
1590 Matriculate (38.5% Yield)

SAT Critical Reading Mid-50%: 630-730
SAT Math Mid-50%: 650-740
SAT Writing Mid-50%: 630-710
ACT Composite Mid-50%: 28-32
ACT English Mid-50%: 27-32
ACT Math Mid-50%: 28-34

% first-year students with SAT Critical Reading Scores in 700-800 Range: 36.6
% first-year students with SAT Critical Reading Scores in 600-699 Range: 53.5
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 700-800 Range: 48.5
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 600-699 Range: 42.4
% first-year students with SAT Writing Scores in 700-800 Range: 38.3
% first-year students with SAT Writing Scores in 600-699 Range: 48.1

% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 30-36 Range: 57.3
% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 24-29 Range: 37.5
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 30-36 Range: 63.0
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 24-29 Range: 30.9
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 30-36 Range: 50.6
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 24-29 Range: 42.3

% in top tenth of high school graduation class: 79 (-2)
% in top quarter of high school graduation class: 95 (+2)

% who had GPA of 3.75 and higher: 46.4
% who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74: 24.5

These numbers represent a noticeable increase in overall selectivity.

Freshman to Sophomore retention: 96% (+1)
6-Year Graduation rate: 89% (+1)

These numbers will place Vanderbilt above Emory in Graduation and Retention.

Peer Assessment will be a wild card factor...it is perhaps the most absurd element of this whole shindig.

<hr>

Emory 2006-2007 (Class of '10 on which USNWR 2008 Rankings are based):
14222 Students Applied
4535 Accepted (31.9% Rate)
1340 Matriculate (29.5% Yield)

SAT Critical Reading Mid-50%: 640-730
SAT Math Mid-50%: 660-740
SAT Writing Mid-50%: n/a
ACT Composite Mid-50%: 29-33
ACT English Mid-50%: n/a
ACT Math Mid-50%: n/a

% first-year students with SAT Critical Reading Scores in 700-800 Range: 29.3
% first-year students with SAT Critical Reading Scores in 600-699 Range: 53.9
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 700-800 Range: 46.0
% first-year students with SAT Math Scores in 600-699 Range: 46.4
% first-year students with SAT Writing Scores in 700-800 Range: 30.8
% first-year students with SAT Writing Scores in 600-699 Range: 54.1

% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 30-36 Range: 46
% first-year students with ACT Composite Scores in 24-29 Range: 51
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 30-36 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT English Scores in 24-29 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 30-36 Range: n/a
% first-year students with ACT Math Scores in 24-29 Range: n/a

% in top tenth of high school graduation class: 88% (-2)
% in top quarter of high school graduation class: 95% (-3)

% who had GPA of 3.75 and higher: 52
% who had GPA between 3.50 and 3.74: 32.5

These numbers represent a noticeable increase in overall selectivity.

Freshman to Sophomore retention: 94% (=)
6-Year Graduation rate: 87.1% (-1.9)

These numbers will place Emory below Vanderbilt in Graduation and Retention.

Peer Assessment will be a wild card factor...it is perhaps the most absurd element of this whole shindig.

We are the angry mob
We read the papers everyday
We like who we like
We hate who we hate
But we're allso easily swayed

elsijfdl · July 31, 2007, 1:35am

the thing that is the most damaging to the case of people arguing for emory in this instance (more often than not emory students) is that they attempt to provide, with great transparency and to their discredit, a delusory "omission" or even flat out denial that oxford college is a part of their school and that oxford students will be graduating with the same diploma as them, taking the same classes as them, and are part of their student body.

idontcare · July 31, 2007, 1:46am

Kaiser Chiefs?

RootBeerCaesar · July 31, 2007, 8:50am

i dont like either of those colleges

poozislove · July 31, 2007, 7:59pm

What about those who are obsessed with rankings, but still realize that FIT is an important factor? What would you say the student body is like at Emory or at Vandy?

mj93 · July 31, 2007, 11:05pm

Someone explain what Peer Assessment is, please.

elsijfdl · July 31, 2007, 11:59pm

the last foothold traditionally strong universities and strong graduate schools have on their USNews undergraduate ranking

briantheman · August 6, 2007, 9:21pm

poozislove, i would first say they've made a step in the right direction. the student bodies are vastly different. as aformentioned, "while both are in major U.S. cities, few people refute the fact that Vanderbilt has much more of a "residential college feel". some prefer that and some prefer the city feel. Vanderbilt has tons of geographic diversity, ever-growing racial diversity, and some socio-economic diversity. emory has more socio-economic diversity. Vanderbilt is a DI SEC school while emory is DIII. greek life is a bigger deal at Vanderbilt than emory but like everything else that Vanderbilt does...balanced. it would be near impossible for an independent to be troubled by not being greek...whereas at a place like w&l that simply wouldn't be the case.

emory/Vanderbilt
<1%/<1% American Indian/Alaskan Native
20%/7% Asian/Pacific Islander
9%/9% Black/Non-Hispanic
4%/5% Hispanic
52%/61% White/Non-Hispanic
7%/3% Non-Resident Alien
9%/14% Race/ethnicity unreported
*this does not take into account the oxford college of emory which has around 600 additional students and higher numbers on the diversity scale (i.e. 16% black/a.a., 26% asian,p.i.)
*e: roughly 1/3 jewish/ v: near 17% jewish ('11)

the list goes on. they're very different. more students transfer from emory to vanderbilt than vanderbilt to emory. the cross-admit numbers favor vanderbilt.these numbers are in some research document but i don't have time to re-find them. all that means is there are two different types people rather than one being better than the other.

mj93, peer assessment is the old guard. other schools are given the opportunity to asses their peer schools on a scale out of 5. naturally, the ivies will asses their fellows as fantastic and outsiders as low. the result of this is a perpetuation of insanity. if say, all 8 ivy league universities rank within the top 15 places...even the lowest ranking is held in high esteem. pretty simple really and therefore the group grows even more in prestige with the andy bernards of this world. this "peer assessment" (at the very least, in its current status) is a disgrace to statistical analysis.

world_changer · August 6, 2007, 11:02pm

Ahh..I hate rankings. They're such crap. Some of the factors are completely insignificant, while others should hold more significance.

But in the end, I believe that people should go where they'll be happy. Period.

And pooz - Both campuses have a strong residential feel. Vanderbilt is preppier, and has a very dominant Greek life. Emory has a more intellectual vibe, but students still venture out into the city for fun. Emory also has a more Northern feel, as most of the students are from the north.

system · August 6, 2007, 11:06pm

I don't know which school is easier overall.. but from what I've seen.. Emory seems to be tougher to get into than Vandy.

Sheed30 · August 6, 2007, 11:30pm

Emory is weak..vandy is better in my opinion....unless you're doing business

briantheman · August 6, 2007, 11:59pm

not quite sheed. they're both great. but let's try something.

vanderbilt is a significantly better school than emory overall.

the percentage of students offered admission and accept that offer:

vandy 2006 yield: 38.5%
emory 2006 yield: 29.5%

along those same lines, of the students that apply to both schools and are then offered admission to both schools, more accept the offer from vanderbilt (cross-admit).

veering a little off, and as aformentioned, despite the fact that both schools are indeed great schools and therefore have high retention rates at or above 94% (vanderbilt's being 96%), more students transfer from emory to vanderbilt than vice versa.

we're all so easily swayed

PttPnthr · August 7, 2007, 12:00am

mj93, Peer review is the most ridiculous thing ever invented. Here's how US News tries to justify it:

"Peer assessment (weighting: 25 percent). The U.S. News ranking formula gives greatest weight to the opinions of those in a position to judge a school's undergraduate academic excellence. The peer assessment survey allows the top academics we consult—presidents, provosts, and deans of admissions—to account for intangibles such as faculty dedication to teaching. Each individual is asked to rate peer schools' academic programs on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished)."

I say: Since when did college leaders become experts on OTHER colleges? They are paid to improve THEIR college, not to evaluate others. Honestly, how well do you think the president of NYU knows the University of Arizona? Do you think Princeton's Dean of Admissions spends a lot of time around the faculty of Texas? Definitely not an objective ranking.

If you look at it, the schools that score the highest in peer review (outside of the elites) are just the biggest and most well-known jock schools. Michigan ties Penn and Duke with a 4.5 but Dartmouth gets a 4.4? Huh? Wisconsin a 4.2 but WUStL a 4.1? Texas a 4.1 but Emory a 4.0? Indiana, Purdue, PSU, and Minnesota a 3.8 but Tufts a 3.7? Arizona a 3.6 but Wake Forest a 3.5? Lehigh a 3.2, less than UMass, Oregon, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa State, and Virginia Tech? Utah at 3.2 outscores Pepperdine, at 3.1?

R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S

vincanity1 · August 7, 2007, 12:23am

Aside from the fact that they put people into unwarranted debt, rankings play a much more significant and usually malevolent role when they are given too much emphasis by employers.

IMO it isn't the college search, but rather the employment factors that really matter

kyledavid80 · August 7, 2007, 12:23am

I rarely see debates on Vandy vs. Emory. They're on par with one another.

brand_182 · August 7, 2007, 12:32am

^Agreed. Posts such as this seem like a desperate attempt to prove that your school is considerably better than a peer when in fact they are peers. I would give the edge to Vanderbilt but don't see where yield/cross admit/transfer/admission rates have any merit in this discussion. To cite the classic example, UChicago also has a higher acceptance rate than many other schools but that is not logically used as evidence against its quality.

briantheman · August 7, 2007, 12:41am

correct me if i'm off here fellas, but isn't the classic example of a debate when two options are in fact somewhat on par with one another...?

i don't see many roger federer vs michael russell debates. weird huh

brand_182 · August 7, 2007, 12:46am

Not necessarily. But I fail to see how two things (in this case schools) can be "somewhat on par with one another" while at the same time the claim is being made that

[quote]
vanderbilt is a significantly better school than emory overall.

[/quote]

I just don't see it. At the same time, I don't see my school (Wesleyan) being "significantly better" than Emory or Vanderbilt, nor do I feel much need to compare them, especially when the statistics of top schools are so similar anyways. I think others are getting it right when they say that the schools are peers, one has similar opportunities, and pick should be based on fit. Be happy with where you are and don't look down on the Emory kids just because their school offers an easy way to transfer in and get their degree. Remember that Harvard, Columbia, and the rest of the big boys do the same thing under a different name.

vincanity1 · August 7, 2007, 12:50am

Schools are much harder to compare than tennis players if you're looking at the school's in terms of their overall academics

Pat2323 · August 7, 2007, 12:52am

Where do you get stats on cross-admits? Is there someplace that publishes them for rival schools? Because I see people post cross-admit stats all the time, but I've never read/seen anything outside of CC that mentions cross-admit stats.

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