Army: serve or not?

College Confidential Community
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<p>Sorry that this thread is primarily for men (though maybe not:))</p>

<p>This is rather serious topic for many teenagers now. I understand American army - it is voluntary, but what about countries where army is compulsary. Is it right? And is it right that patriotism is service in army? </p>

<p>As for me, I'm against it and I don't find anything thrilling and brave in killing other people, I don't want to be the part of such "community", I don't want to obey officers - I just wish to be free, I consider the freedom our main aim of patriotism. I am not a pacifist, but I think that army must be for professionals who want to be a soldier all his/her life. </p>

<p>Any opinions?</p>

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<p>The army isn't for everyone. It certainly isn't for me, that is why I joined the Air Force. The army doesn't challenge you intellectually like the USAF or Navy does, in certain circles. That being said it takes a special type of person to be able to join the army. I do not agree that it is a good idea to put a 18 or 19 year old fresh out of high school in the middle of the hot ass desert to be able to extinguish the enemy from the ally, when everyone looks the same. If you are thinking of joining the army or marines, they will probably send you to Iraq. I thought for a second about joining the Army as an officer, being a graduate and all, but then I remembered shipping out all those poor soldiers of the second infantry division to the desert from Korea, and I could never do that to my fiancee. God bless the troops over there BTW, I would never volunteer for that. (not that many of them said, "Ship me to Iraq!") Being TOLD you have to go is an entirely different story.</p>

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<p>Kent, can you imagine that in one country (Russia, for example), army is compulsory, for every guy who is 18? That's really hard, I guess</p>

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<p>In Israel it compulsary for EVERYONE who turns 18, including women. If you knew from the time that you were ten that you had to do the service at 18, it wouldn't be that bad. Plus American kids are coddled way to much for this to ever happen in this country. Let's face it, high school is basically useless. The people who excel in high school would be better off learning in a college type environment anyways, and the people in this country that dropout would be better faced with an apprenticship, or a trip to trade school to learn something they are actually interested in, instead of trying to learn algebra when they totally hate it. So down with high school, or at least make it more focused toward the individual students needs.</p>

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<p>I was going to mention Israel because I met a girl who was working at the mall and she was telling me how she has to go back there to serve her time. She had the same reaction that she knew since she was a kid that she was going in so she did not mind at all.</p>

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<p>I can see the downsides of mandatory service(which is imposed in MANY more countries then just Russia) but is it any worse then sending the poor out to fight for the rich(and middle for that matter)? I was watching this show awhile ago on US recruiting and how they target the poor areas of the country because those are the type of people that will sign... not the middle to upper middle class kids. Although unfortunate, it is true. What person these days is going to voluntary sign when they know that they will be sent straight to fight and have to stay in longer then what they were originally thinking... not many, right?</p>

<p>This new draft they're talking about in the USA is a little more unbiased but I for one know many kids who would find a way out... Mandatory service spreads the burdens and victory of war and peace out among all. Although at first it may seen radical, the country would adjust and it would be accepted. Remember, mandatory service does not mean fighting out in the fields... it could be a receptionist. </p>

<p>I really don't know how I feel about this and though I know my views about are slightly tilted, I really don't feel one way or another. I have many family memebers in the military but slowly all I hear about is the deception and corruptness in the system.</p>

<p>... I'm off.</p>

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<p>interesting topic ... I think a pretty good case could be made that everyone in the US should provide 2 years of "service" to the US after HS. Service could be in the military, in the peace corp, or other non-military public service organizations. While an interesting idea I can't imagine it ever flying in the US.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
but what about countries where army is compulsary

[/quote]
</p>

<p>stick to what the op asked</p>

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<p>I want to comment Israel situation (I also rather understand it):</p>

<p>1) it has only one nation - Jews, they're all very patriotic and ready to do everything for their recently established country.
2) there is now the war between Israel and Palestine (so that ther is real need in soldiers)</p>

<p>I'd like you to pay attention to countries of other kind:
1) which are multinational, but the people of different ethnic groups fight for the security of one.
2) which are now in peaceful situation
3) which has soldiers hungry, weak, beaten by officers
4) which has both patriots and antipatriots.</p>

<p>In such countries army becomes deadly not because of war, but because of it itself, its atmosphere, its contradictions and belittling. It kills (mentally, not physically) many talents, who returns being stupid, rough and demoralized, or even disabled (coz their fellow soldiers beat 'em)</p>

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<p>There are Arab citizens in Israel, not just Jews.</p>

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<p>Volunteer for a week at a VA hospital, or watch some of these poor bastards right before they get shipped over there, and after they come back, and you will realize that everything that stardragon says is true. Many less than privileged (sp?) have been lured by that nice $15,000 sign on bonus or the promise of money for college, when in reality when alot of these guys come back they are so mentally drained they are in no shape for college so they end up working construction or begging for money the rest of their lives.</p>

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<p>Military service in Israel is not compulsory for Palestinian Israelis or far right Israelis. However, you do need military service in order to qualify for some jobs.</p>

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<p>Interesting thread...speaking of military...does anyone here know about the Selective Service System in the US?</p>

<p>I recently had to register for it when I was applying for financial aid at college. I guess its something that every 18 year old male has to do...</p>

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<p>For me the military does pose a tough question.</p>

<p>You see, I would honestly never serve in the military. I would rather sit in a jail cell then kill or help kill. Even if you aren't doing the killing directly, you indirectly encourage it all. I'm not exactly a pacifist. Truly, I don't know what I am. It just all seems so illogical and pathetic. The big, powerful guys fight amongst one another and send there little followers to do the dirty work.</p>

<p>One thing I find sad is that people may go in when they are 18-20 or whatever, before they even have developed a solid moral base and so forth. Honestly, unless you just take every word your parents give you and decide to never look at other ideas, you still have a lot of growing to do. How can someone at that stage of life make up their mind if they are justified in killing for the country's sake. Uhhh. I know it is a mess. It's one of those situations that just depresses me thinking about it, and yet I can't find a practical solution.</p>

<p>Not to be pessimistic, but something I'm learnign is there is always $hit in the world. Classrooms can be microcosims of the world. Gosh, today I was walking to my english class and as I entered the class I saw a 8th grade kid in the hall slap the books out of this other kid's hands. The kid who lost his book is really scrawny, lives in the trailer park, and yes can be mean. But he was trained to. Ahhh it just makes me sad and that I can't change it. </p>

<p>About the military again. I have trouble because I really like America and so forth but I am not very patriotic. My parents are not pacifists but they have been against the iraq war from the get-go. I didn't make my mind up until a bit later- and it is still not completely settled. But until I see decent justification I lean against war. ANyway, there is this guy in my class whose dad was in iraq for a while and his whole family is pretty into the military. Anyway, I found out earlier this year that he "hates" me. And you know why? Because my parents protested the war in d.c. He seriously goes out of his way to make me feel like crap here and there and wow it is just sad. I can't stand it. I wish he could understand that you can still support troops by wanting them to come home. Ahhh. The other day in world lit he made the comment (directed at me no doubt) that if he ever saw someone protesting on the road, he would run them over. </p>

<p>If anything, he more turns me away from the military and war. He is so narrow-minded and caught up ughh it is crazy. He says he hates everyone who is french. He is so hating and ughh it depresses me.</p>

<p>Anyway, as for military... Personally, at this point I would never serve. It feels wrong to me personally. That also means I don't believe in forcing others. Ughh it is a mess. I guess I take the easy way, by knowing I will never have to serve.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Sorry that this thread is primarily for men (though maybe not)</p>

<p>This is rather serious topic for many teenagers now. I understand American army - it is voluntary, but what about countries where army is compulsary. Is it right? And is it right that patriotism is service in army?</p>

<p>As for me, I'm against it and I don't find anything thrilling and brave in killing other people, I don't want to be the part of such "community", I don't want to obey officers - I just wish to be free, I consider the freedom our main aim of patriotism. I am not a pacifist, but I think that army must be for professionals who want to be a soldier all his/her life.</p>

<p>Any opinions?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This situation is too multi-faceted to definitively say whether compulsory or volunteer service is better. When you approach the problem from the American perspective, it becomes rather obvious that in 99% of the case, an all-volunteer service is the BEST method. A highly trained force of dedicated personell WILLING to put themselves on the line to protect the rest of the population is the single best weapon we have. In only the most extreme circumstances (say another epic World War 2 style conflict) will a compulsory system work. (Then again, if we are ever faced with such a conflict like World War 2, it would be hard to imagine many more Americans NOT choosing to serve).</p>

<p>The other way to view this problem is through the eyes of a small European country or Israel. For them, there simply is not great enough a population to yield the necessary numbers of troops if it was an all-volunteer system. In this case, a compulsory system is the only feasible method to provide the adequate number of troops for both peacetime operations and war situations.</p>

<p>*While compulsory military service is of questionable value in most cases in American society, many people often discuss a mandatory 1-2 year "civil" service for high school grads-such as volunteer work, etc. This civil service is certainly debatable though.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
As for me, I'm against it and I don't find anything thrilling and brave in killing other people, I don't want to be the part of such "community", I don't want to obey officers - I just wish to be free, I consider the freedom our main aim of patriotism. I am not a pacifist, but I think that army must be for professionals who want to be a soldier all his/her life.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's your personal choice, but please keep in mind that the military is not always about professional killers who have wanted to be soldiers all their lives. I know that the current war on terror sparks much debate, but what about an example regarding World War 2? Would you have fought in that case? Even if you choose not to, remember that many many people (of all political or ideological orientations) voluntarily chose to serve to destroy Nazism. Things are not necessarily so black-and-white.</p>

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<p>For those who said they would never join the army and would rather rot in jail:</p>

<p>What about the option to serve in an alternative way, such as caring for the elderly? The selective service offers such alternatives for those who are drafted and don't want to even be in a noncombatant position overseas.</p>

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<p>Real discussion I see...</p>

<p>Somebody mentioned WW2. I absolutely don't think that Nazism can be compared to the today terrorism (which is mostly just attacks by one certain country, don't want to pronounce its name), and now there is no need in so big weak army of compulsorily taken soldiers.</p>

<p>I don't understand the people who even can discuss whether voluntary is better than compulsary. Of course, voluntary! </p>

<p>I don't want to serve country, who don't serve me, who desparages me, who establishes terrible adversities and difficulties. I want to be the human. We're not the hill of termites, so everyone is individualist and the rule is nothing, compared to this individualism. I'll try to dedicate my life to fighting against "compulsarism", I don't want to be the pawn and don't want others misunderstand their own wishes and situations.</p>

<p>The future war is the war of technological weapons, and I regret when some countries don't realize it.</p>

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<p>And sorry for my words below..</p>

<p>Israel is agressor. Using the support of UN, it occupied Palestine, increased its own area illegally and agressively. Now it kills innocent Arabs (Israeli soldier vs. Arab teenager with stone in his hand-- laughy). I am absolutely against Palestinian terrorism, but Israeli must understand that they can backfired. It's rational. So let's leave Israel, it's military country, it needs army, and its people support army.</p>

<p>I am for Iraq war, I'm for the war in Afghanistan. So I'm not pacifict and "rejector" of wars, but.. I'm "much more FOR" the rights of human, that's why I'm for voluntary army. Army is something less than people of certain country, and I hate expressions of officials "we need to increase the prestige of army".</p>

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<p>No do not serve, what good can come of death</p>

<p>"an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" gandhi</p>

<p>I, of course am a strict pacifist</p>