Army: serve or not?

College Confidential Community
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<p>ieatglue, what is the basis for that assumption? there is a reason that stalin was practically begging the western allies to open up a western front in europe (on top of the front in italy that already existed). further, the ussr only joined the war on japan in the closing days so they could make imperialistic demands when we finished them off (about 90% of the reason japan was beaten was the US, more specifically the marines). the a-bombs were dropped AFTER russian interference had already begun, which is why they ended up getting half of sakhalin (sp?) island. they were dropped to prevent 1 million or more US casualties in an invasion. its one thing to give credit to our allies during that war, its another to completely discount the impact of our joining the war.</p>

<p>as for that quote regarding how the solider gives us freedom, it seems all u lefties are missing the point. our people could love freedom all they want, our government could expound on the merits of it all that it wants, but without the sacrifice of the soldier, neither group would be able to enjoy freedom, because threats from outside would make that impossible. also, the statement OBVIOUSLY refers to OUR soldiers, not other ones who have created dictatorships and supported tyrannies, etc.</p>

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<p>...realize how horrific and important that battle was for defeating The German occupation of France.</p>

<p>I don't want to belittle the merits of USA, but the battle in France was very very peaceful and bloodless comparing it to the Stalingrad battle, or the battle near Kursk. Several million people died there. USA so remembers Normandy, but only 5500 soldiers died there, USA cries hearing about Pearl Harbor, but only 3,5 thousand were killed there. So America helped economically, but not militarily (yes, they did fight, but it was not so crucial). Nazism was defeated by USSR (Stalingrad) and England (El Alamein). </p>

<p>I am having a hard time understanding the rest of your statement. Are you BLAMING The United States for terrorism? Is it our fault that we give out more humanitarian aid than any other country in the world?</p>

<p>I am blaming America for taking terrorism so seriously and giving so much aid. Don't help other countries (you spend your money vainly) and don't exaggerate terrorism. This is my advise.</p>

<p>However, Palestinian terrorists have no right killing innocent children and civilians for their cause.</p>

<p>Do Jew have the right to occupy Palestine? Do they have the right to have their own country, if they're as cruel as Nazists were? Both Palestine and Israel kill people. The difference is:
1) Israeli soldiers kill children and casual pedestrians; Palestinian terrorists fight for their independence (as America did), Palestinian teenagers "kill" soldiers and hi-tech planes with their stones.
2) Israel, once created, brings only war to the Middle East, bring new and new deaths. I'd like to cancel the decision of UN 1947 year. </p>

<p>Imagine, Inuits (any nation, however) created very very little country in New-York (UN helped them to do it). Then it occupied the whole state of New York, then - entire East coast, then - USA and Canada. Americans try to free, but Inuits are very developed, and USA cannot become independent. And suddenly.. the world begins to think that these Inuits are right, and "why do Americans live here anyway", who are they.. what a cursed terrorists!!.. they're want to extricate.. they kill innocent Inuits..</p>

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<p>
[quote]

Palestinian terrorists fight for their independence (as America did), Palestinian teenagers "kill" soldiers and hi-tech planes with their stones.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Or blow themselves up near Israeli day-cares.</p>

<p>There is a large amount of blood on the hands of both sides. Hopefully Abbas can accomplish what Arafat would not. Peace in the region will take much effort and even more time, but things are looking up.</p>

<p>/half full</p>

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<p>Hopefully Abbas can accomplish what Arafat would not.</p>

<p>You do not understand? Israel killed Arafat, and made Abbas president. The peace in Middle East doesn't depend on Palestine, it depends on Israel. So when Ariel Sharon is moved, the war will stop.</p>

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<p>
[quote]

You do not understand? Israel killed Arafat, and made Abbas president. Israel is against America, don't you know?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Okaaaaaaaay....</p>

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<p>"Do Jew have the right to occupy Palestine? "</p>

<p>Exactly.Why should the Palestinians be deprived of their lives and homes so that Jews cud find a new home after the Holocaust?Did the Palestinians commit the holocaust?
Were they responsible for the wrongs that Jews have suffered since many centuries in Europe?Did they put Jews in concentration camps?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't want to belittle the merits of USA, but the battle in France was very very peaceful and bloodless comparing it to the Stalingrad battle, or the battle near Kursk. Several million people died there. USA so remembers Normandy, but only 5500 soldiers died there, USA cries hearing about Pearl Harbor, but only 3,5 thousand were killed there. So America helped economically, but not militarily (yes, they did fight, but it was not so crucial). Nazism was defeated by USSR (Stalingrad) and England (El Alamein).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I find your knowledge of history to be stunningly one-sided. You compare the western front (fought primarily by the US and British) to the Eastern front (primarily by the Soviets), but fail to realize WHY the eastern front had so many casualties. It was this case because the only tactic the Soviets could utilize was basically the human wave concept, where hundreds of thousands of troops were flung into the front lines and simply overpowered the NAzi forces by brute numbers. ALL regard for human lives, military efficiency, and SMART planning was disregarded by most Soviet commanders. So basically, using the casualty count as a merit of "importance" of battles is completely off. </p>

<p>Your statement that the US helped only economically and not as much militariily is also complete BS. Not only did the US supply the desperately needed aid,equipiment, and manpower to allied countries, they also opened up the western front to quicken the demise of the Nazis. Also, the US were the main contributing factor to the defeat of the Japanese empire in the Pacific, again putting a quicker end to the war. Image what would have happened if the US was not involved in the war. The small European countries would have collapsed due to the lack of resources or equipment if the war dragged on for many more years, and many more millions of people would have been killed on all sides had the Russians slugged out the rest of the war with their human wave tactics. In addition, your statements that Nazism was "defeated" at El ALemain and Stalingrad completely disregard facts. NAzism was ultimately defeated through the combined military and economic efforts of ALL allied nations, including the US. It was NOT defeated at solitary battles.</p>

<p>btw, Your statements that the US were not so important military is also a slap in the face to all American World war II veterans, and ridiculous to historians.</p>

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<p>"I am blaming America for taking terrorism so seriously and giving so much aid. Don't help other countries (you spend your money vainly) and don't exaggerate terrorism. This is my advise."</p>

<p>OMG. You clearly have no fundamental understanding of terrorism, or the threat we face today. You seem to want to turn a blind eye to it. Thank God that you are not our President, nor will you be our President with such poor judgement. The reason America takes terrorism seriously is because it's a VERY, VERY SERIOUS THREAT! Here are just some terrorist attacks the U.S. has endured in the past:</p>

<ol>
<li>TERRORISTS blew up the U.S. Marine baracks in Beirut in 1983, killing 243 Mariners. </li>
<li>TERRORISTS hijacked the Achille Lauro cruise ship and murdered an elderly wheelchair-bound American. </li>
<li>TERRORISTS murdered 270 innocent people in 1988 by bombing Pan Am flight 103. </li>
<li>TERRORISTS bombed the World Trade Center in 1993.</li>
<li>TERRORISTS bombed the U.S. military baracks in Saudi Arabia in 1995, killing 292 people. </li>
<li>TERRORISTS bombed the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1997, killing 243 people and injuring over 5,000.</li>
<li>TERRORISTS bombed the USS Cole in 2000, killing seventeen sialors. </li>
<li>And on September 11, 2001, TERRORISTS hijacked four airliners and killed 3,000 Americans. </li>
</ol>

<p>Don't tell Americans that we're "exagerating terrorism" when terrorism has killed thousands of Americans in the past, because, frankly, it's disgusting.</p>

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<p>first of all, stardragon, the "battle of france" (id like to see what history book you got that name out of) was fought by a high percentage of american troops who, proportionally, took the most casualties (at omaha beach). as ameechee said, the reason the USSR had so many casualties was because of both a) their tactics, including the "human wave" and the policy of the officers gunning down any of their own soldiers who had the gall to retreat and b) the fact that they were caught by surprise because of the non-agression pact they had signed with hitler so they could get half of poland and invade finland. also, not to belittle el alamein, but you are SEVERELY overestimating the impact of that battle- it was but a prerequisite to the true turning points of the war. and again, you ignore the entire pacific theater of the war, fought almost entirely by the US.</p>

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<p>oooh this debate is getting heated</p>

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<p>Alright, it's been 2 years since I've studied this, so I just remember the conclusions that I arrived at, not too many of the specifics.</p>

<p>For starters, the Red Army had (based on high and low end estimates of recruits and deaths in WWII) between 5 and 13 million men left when the war ended. I've looked for about half an hour and I can't find German figures, but I did find that the Germans had 38.4 million men in 1940, and if we assume an even population distribution by age (unlikely), and that people between 16 and 35 fought in the army, that leaves us about 10.4 million German men between 16 and 35 left alive. Assuming no one was disabled and everyone alive between these ages fought, we have 10.4 million soldiers. I have found casualty numbers between 7 and 8.1 million. So absolutely best case scenario for the Germans, we have 3.4 million Germans who are in retreat and seeing their empire collapse fighting 5 million angry Russians.</p>

<p>I really really don't feel like writing about the Japanese thing, I've wasted enough time on this topic already and I wrote a paper about it freshman year, so here, read these essays:
<a href="http://www.coursework.info/i/13886.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.coursework.info/i/13886.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/stowell/a-bomb.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/stowell/a-bomb.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Basically, the bomb was dropped to end the war before Russia was required to enter into the conflict. According to the terms of the Yalta Conference, Russia had to enter the war on the 8th of August, which they did. We dropped the bomb on the 6th, before Russia could enter the war.</p>

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<p>Making peace should not be solely on the shoulders of Israelis. They are starting to make land concessions and dismantle settlements, but why should they, when suicide bombings continue to occur? Hopefully, Abbas will help to control some terrorists enough to stop killings like that so the peace can move forward.</p>

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<p>I am female, and I would never enlist in the military. If, by chance I were drafted I would fight it. I'd either run, or just have them send me to prison. I do not believe that America has any right to be "helping" Iraq, when they clearly don't want us to. And I wouldn't want to fight in a war that I knew nothing about. I think the government has lied to us and the soldiers, just to get people over there.</p>

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<p>I am not implying that there will be a draft, I don't want to start an argument about that, but for anyone that feels like me or hibiscus, read this:
<a href="http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=63207%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=63207&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Wow. Really, wow. When I last posted, I was only refuting a few historical errors that stardragon made. I was only getting the facts straight, and straightening him/her out. </p>

<p>Well, as the argument progressed, he/she and other crazies let their true colors show. Some people are so caught up in their political ideas that they refuse to see the facts, and sometimes also lose their morals and values.</p>

<p>I am a liberal. I am liberal in every sense of the word. I believe in a strong central government and side with the left on most social issues. I dislike the war(while showing my dislike tastefully) and I wholeheartedly support our troops and am grateful for their courage in putting their lives on the line. However, despite my disbelief in the war, I do not or ever will have the gaul to ever discredit the great work that my country has done for the world recently and in the past, and I am continually amazed by people's ingratitude for our good work.</p>

<p>The citizens of The United States of America represent 6% of the world's population. Amazingly, though, The U.S.A. gives over 60% of humanitarian aid to the world. This is not including the many private non-profit organizations in the U.S.A that give homes, food, and education to those in need.</p>

<p>How, stardragon, can you possibly say that we "do this in vain?" I plan on dedicating my life in International Affairs to this cause, and how can you say that my future of possibly saving malnurished childrens' lives "in vain?" Are you without a soul or any human dignity(sorry for sounding dramatic, but it's true if he really feels this way)?</p>

<p>Bullrider did a very nice job explaining why Americans take terrorism seriously, so I don't have to refute your very unfounded and ignorant, I might add, comment on why the US "takes terrorism so seriously." You sound like you condone terrorism, and that is just really sad. The United States has every right to be afraid of terrorists, and to murder anyone guilty of these heinous and despicable crimes against innocent children and civilians. I don't know if you had to go to a funeral after 911 like I did, but if you had, I think you just might understand Americans absolute hate for these horrible murderers. Your knowledge of history and current events is so biased it's frightening! Do you watch the news at all? The Palestinian terrorists have bombed day cares and killed numbers of other civilians. There is absolutely NO excuse for this, no matter who is right or wrong. Diplomacy can correct things. Do you expect people to be more willing to negociate and give even more land to Palestine if Palestians continue to bomb and murder innocent Jews? How dare you blame us for terrorism in the world, and what a slap in the face to veterans and humanitarians who aim to help the world.</p>

<p>Btw, what country are you from, and what source of news do you have? I mean the network, not "channel 1."</p>

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<p>Uhh, great discussion..great.. you want me to reply I'll try</p>

<p>Do you watch the news at all?
Don't you know that Mass Media in America is controlled by Jews and Israel? That's not crazy statement, remember about it. I like to analyze facts, not just retell them word by word.</p>

<p>Btw, what country are you from, and what source of news do you have?
Russia. American history is exaggerated and Russian history is exaggerated (you must know it, if you're going to Harvard:)), and I don't see the reason why American history is more important than Russian one. I guarantee if you write in Russian forum, everybody will think that YOU are crazy. America opened the Western front only when USSR did everything in 1943-1944, when it won Stalingrad battle, surrounded more than 100,000 soldiers of Paulus, when USSR already returned Don, won the battle near Kursk, when Leningrad freed. You did like cowards (I don't belittle your veterans, I belittle your government). On every conference you promised to begin Western compaign in 1943, but you lied.. only 6 june 1944, and Hollywood already made so many films about it.. Do you know?.. America and England began the war in France only because of their wish to take the part of German. </p>

<p>Somebody said I ignore Japan. Read my previous posts, please. I agree that Pacific war was completely your merit, but don't belittle the merits of Soviet veterans. Yes, USSR is a dirty country, but we together won Nazism, and please don't forget this. </p>

<p>* I plan on dedicating my life in International Affairs to this cause, and how can you say that my future of possibly saving malnurished childrens' lives "in vain?"*</p>

<p>Do you know why China will overpower America? Because they never give humanitarian help :) Give all this help your children. Or am I wrong that 30% of American children suffer from obsesity and so on? Why don't you want to help them? </p>

<p>America is on the wrong way in beating terrorism. I don't say that you should not be afraid of it, but I'm sorry that you think terrorists are Al-Qaeda and other Arabs. You understand me wrongly. Terrorists doen't exist at all. I repeat: 2 countries prepare terrorists on the territory of Iran and Siriya. I hate when Bush and Putin on every every every conference repeat "terorism.. fight.. unite .." This is the game of big leadetrs, I think you, the applicants and students of great univs, know it.</p>

<p>Akash, plz, help me here with Israel and Palestine..:) I see everyone here is American, except you.. they're too biased</p>

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<p>I have nothing against any of the men or women who are in the military, that's great for them if that's what they want to do. What I don't understand is why we are so concerned with all these other countries, when there are thousands of people in our own country that are in need of aid. Once our government has helped all our own people, and gotten rid of the high poverty, murders, and drugs, then I will help my country help other countries. I don't see that happening in my lifetime though.</p>

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<p>What I don't understand is why we are so concerned with all these other countries</p>

<p>Exactly. That's what you should do, Americans</p>

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<p>"Do you know why China will overpower America? Because they never give humanitarian help Give all this help your children. Or am I wrong that 30% of American children suffer from obsesity and so on? Why don't you want to help them?" </p>

<p>Good idea. Americans, let's stop helping the world. In fact, let's pull ALL of our troops in the world out and bring 'em back home, seeing as how the world hates us because they think that we're involved in everything. I mean, c'mon, what's the worst that can happen? Sure, the Japanese would be rendered defenseless, the North Koreans would declare war on the South Koreans, the Taliban would rise back to power in Afghanistan, the terrorist insurgency in Iraq would claim victory, there would be ZERO distribution of aid in South East Asia, and the millions upon millions of WMDs that are being protected in Cold War strongholds would be unprotected, open for anyone to steal causing nuclear proliferation. But other than that, nothing else can really happen. </p>

<p>//end sarcasm</p>

<p>Don't you get? America keeps this world stable. While your Russian government was too busy taking kick-backs on oil from Saddam Hussein via the Oil-for-Food program, America was securing the safety of the world. </p>

<p>I think your sillyness is best summed up by your own words:</p>

<p>"Don't you know that Mass Media in America is controlled by Jews and Israel?"
"I'm sorry that you think terrorists are Al-Qaeda" </p>

<p>I would rebuttal the rest of your silly points, however, I figured it's pointless. You're just another victim of anti-Americanism. 'Nuff said.</p>

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<p>I am for Iraq war, I'm for the war in Afghanistan. So I'm not pacifict and "rejector" of wars,</p>

<p>This is my words, Bull.. I see you didn't read them. Why should I reply to lazy poster?? </p>

<p>You're blind!! You're biased!! You really think that I reflect official Russian opinion? Nooo, it's much much more terrible than mine..
I know many usual Americans, who agree with me. Only CCers are so silly and blind, coz they think they're very smart?? You think that America is everything, but I want to help you actually.. does America secure the safety? Yes, but how does humanitarian help connected with it? I'm against aid, not political influence and wars.
BTW, is that why your president so "clever"? ;)</p>

<p>You're just another victim of anti-Americanism.</p>

<p>Ha-ha! Really? What anti-American do you see in my posts? </p>

<p>"I'm sorry that you think terrorists are Al-Qaeda"</p>

<p>And you really think? then, you're the slave of pro-Israel propaganda.</p>