<p>Hippodrome, being from Russia myself, I will tell you that it IS anti-Semitic despite what Stardragon may say. People in my family have repeatedly had opportunities denied to them because they were Jewish and it is no different today. The thing is that you can't ask an anti-Semitic person whether he's anti-Semitic lol. Russians will say, "No, of course we're not racist...we just think that Jews are cheap bastards who deserve to die."</p>
<p>I'd like to answer Hoo and Hippodrome (but not bigjake, who seems to me radical Zionist, sorry):</p>
<p>I watch Russian network, Channel 1, Channel "Russia", and so on, like every other Russian. But I want to say another time, I'm not anti-American (though such propaganda really exists). And if I say you take terrorism very seriously, it's not against America, it's just what you cannot see from the inside, and I advise it. I never say something like "you're bastards, who deserve to die". Neither about America, nor about Jews.</p>
<p>Russian television shows terrorists in Middle East and Russia, like the most of other Western televisions, but the people here make their own conclusions about it, and these conclusions are very different. I'm for Palestine, not because I'm anti-semitic, but because I know some history (unlike many Russians and Americans), and I understand what the roots of this conflicts are. I remember Israeli occupation of Egypt (sinai penninsula), Livan and etc. in 1960s, so don't tell me that it's a peaceful country. </p>
<p>Hoo, "I don't trust them, they bring only blood." I took back these words, but I will never took back the truth I once said about Israel. In Russia, smart people are against Israel (they even asked the policy to shut all Jewish organizations), and not smart people - against Palestine and all other Muslim world.</p>
<p>Hippodrome, I don't live in Muslim region, and I don't think there is some need in living there to understand what happens in the world.
What are your society's general views on Israel and do they dislike The USA?
Generally, yes. They hate America, as you hate Russia. But I disagree with this.</p>
<p>Also, being a prospective ES major is a sorry excuse for some of your ignorant comments.
Maybe it excuses little historical errors?:) I know about Geography a lot, including economical geography. Studying it, I began to relize many many things in the world. At least what the reasons of terrorism and American wars are..
Not only that, I go out of my way to document and provide evidence for what I say, other than making unfounded and ignorant statements.
Every facts i told you about can be proved. But some my statements don't require to be proved.</p>
<p>Bigjake, why cannot I call you "anti-Muslim" and racist, biased against</p>
<p>"Russian television shows terrorists in Middle East and Russia, like the most of other Western televisions, but the people here make their own conclusions about it, and these conclusions are very different."</p>
<p>So we Americans are idiots who don't draw our own conclusions right? </p>
<p>"I know some history (unlike many Russians and Americans), and I understand what the roots of this conflicts are. I remember Israeli occupation of Egypt (sinai penninsula), Livan and etc. in 1960s, so don't tell me that it's a peaceful country"</p>
<p>You obviously don't know history. Israeli occupation of Egypt? Was that when Egypt massed an entire army in the Sinai in preparation for a three-front war on Israel? Does Israel not have a right to defend itself? And furthermore, after it successfully routed the Egyptian forces and took over the Sinai, it was forced by the world to retreat. Had Egypt invaded Israel, that would have been fine. But when Israel does so, it faces tremendous opposition from the world. </p>
<p>You know, try as you might, you just can't cover up your blatantly anti-American and anti-Semitic views.</p>
<p>"In Russia, smart people are against Israel (they even asked the policy to shut all Jewish organizations), and not smart people - against Palestine and all other Muslim world."</p>
<p>That's the most arrogant generalization I have heard from you. "Smart people are against Israel"? Do you know that Jews are among the best scientists and mathematicians in Russia? What smart people are you talking about? And what you say is offensive and ridiculous over and over again. "(they even asked the policy to shut all Jewish organizations)"??? Thats the very DEFINITION of anti-Semitism. That's what happened in Nazi Germany and post-WWII Soviet Union. These are the "smart" people you are talking about - who advocate racism and want to take away freedom? Look at what kind of country you're living in.</p>
<p>"Generally, yes. They hate America, as you hate Russia. But I disagree with this."</p>
<p>See, you would love to justify your views by saying "well, you Americans hate us too." But see, we don't. America is in fact a tolerant country. There are millions of Russian immigrants here who have never faced persecution or adversity. And (other Americans, correct me if i'm wrong), there is no hatred of Russia, definitely not now. Only you and your country. </p>
<p>"Bigjake, why cannot I call you "anti-Muslim" and racist, biased against."</p>
<p>I'm not anti-Muslim because I hate terrorists and feel that Israel has a right to defend itself....</p>
<p>u forget to mention that the palestinians have a right to defend themselves when tanks are running their houses down and they are constantly being killed..what..why do we forget all that crap that the palestinians went through</p>
<p>No, i didn't forget that. See, i'm not a hypocrite. I don't hold Israel to a different standard than i do the Palestinians. The Palestinians DO have a right to defend themselves as anybody else, and they choose to do so through terrorist attacks. Well, if they want to fight, then Israel can fight too. Are you going to blame Israel more because it has a superior military? </p>
<p>If the Palestinians know that they can't defeat Israel, let them be smart and not kill innocent people. Then they won't have tanks running down their houses. Of course, if you're just plain anti-Israeli and you think that Israel drafts men in the military and sends them over to invade Palestinian villages for fun, then i really can't say anything to you.</p>
<p>Remember guys, when I said compulsary army is needed in Israel, Jews are very patriotic and can fight for their country even living in other countries, destroy that states from inside, instigating the persons to beat each other, can be cunning.</p>
<p>And, you bigjake, radical Zionist, racist and chauvinist, are only the best example of my words above. Look at him, guys! he turned my words!</p>
<p>So we Americans are idiots who don't draw our own conclusions right?</p>
<p>No, maybe only you, if you so misunderstand my words. My point was to tell you that Russians have different opinions = every Russian has his/her own opinion.
So why do you live in America, go in Israelm and live there, kill Arabs and so on. You can help so much your fellow racists.</p>
<p>Yes, America is tolernat. I have nothing against it, and don't try to instigate Americans to call me anti-Americanist. This is base. I meant Russians hate them, coz they think Americans hate them.
Does Israel not have a right to defend itself?</p>
<p>Did your parents say you this??:D Israel attacked Egypt and Livan, it increased its area. UN gave them only very small land. </p>
<p>Do you know that Jews are among the best scientists and mathematicians in Russia?</p>
<p>Maybe they are like you: living in USSR and Russia, you serve it, but when you moved out, you began to belittle it. This is true about every country you ever lived in.
Smart people may not be scientists, they may be just people with right understanding of world. They're no so one-sided as you're.</p>
<p>u can call them terrorist..u can call them the military..but they're all teh same..they're all doing the same thing..they are both killing innocent ppl..the israeli military and the terrorist are killing innocent people.theres no difference between the two ..u can call them whatever u want..and first of all..the tank deal happened before any terrorist crap..israel got themselves weapons and started going crazy on other people's land..but honestly i dont want to get into this...this discussion will end the same way..</p>
<p>why are palestinians only considered terrorists?..just cuz they dont wear uniforms..is that it?
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2855851.stm%5B/url%5D">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2855851.stm</a>
<a href="http://www.veteransforpeace.org/AP_cameraman_killed_041903.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.veteransforpeace.org/AP_cameraman_killed_041903.htm</a></p>
<p>dont tell me the crap that israelis do it justified because they working for the country because hey arent the janjaweed militias working for nif ..they are still terrorist..and they are killing innocent ppl.. i dont care what u call all of them..they;re all bad..everyone..</p>
<p>So you call sexidaisy plain anti-semitist. That's over, bigjake. </p>
<p>If anti-semitism is to support Palestinian war for independence, then 4000 million people are plain anti-semitist, and I support them.</p>
<p>Hahaha...finally...read star's message people. Tell me now that he isn't anti-Semitic. </p>
<p>"Jews are very patriotic and can fight for their country even living in other countries, destroy that states from inside, instigating the persons to beat each other, can be cunning."</p>
<p>That was what Hitler said...</p>
<p>"Maybe they are like you: living in USSR and Russia, you serve it, but when you moved out, you began to belittle it."</p>
<p>No, we never served it. We lived in it unfortunately, but we never succumbed to the Soviet system of oppression that you so gladly embrace. I do have some pride in the fact that i have a cultural heritage and was born in a country with a rich history, but my pride in Russia ends with 1917. I have to thank you star for showing how much Russia has not changed in its racist views. You belong there with the rest of your "smart" idiots.</p>
<p>"If anti-semitism is to support Palestinian war for independence, then 4000 million people are plain anti-semitist, and I support them."</p>
<p>hmm...i dont know where you got 4000 million people, but yeah thats my point. Most of Europe and Russia is in fact anti-Semitic. And i know that you support them.</p>
<p>dude all jews dont come from israel..screw that..israel is created of jews from many different countries...there is no..israel..ohh "im israeli"..that doesnt mean crap..back track years..ur from somewhere else..my dads friend..is originally from romania..then they moved to israel..screw that..i love my jewish friends and my teachers..who are majority of them..but screw it..i am never going to endorse to justify..or allow u ppl to legitimize israel's violence..</p>
<p>Don't endorse it. I couldn't care less about you as long as Bush supports Israel's right to self-defense. For now, i'm satisfied. When some liberals come to power and bend over for the UN, then i'll be annoyed.</p>
<p>And don't talk about stuff you don't understand. Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics have been sites of anti-Semitism for the past half-century. Jews who move to Israel from these oppressive nations don't want to have anything to do with the places of their birth. They are Israeli. They have moved to a new country. I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one is American then by the same logic because everyone's family originated elsewhere unless you're Native American...</p>
<p>hmm thats the point..ur american..yeah u dont forget ur culture..im still from another culture..anyway dear..i dont like the UN either..i understand clearly..they created israel..wasnt there before..thats the point..dont get me wrong..im not in favor of the genocide of native americans that has gone in this country..unchecked..but obviously..u dont care..because im not bush..so this discussion is pretty much over..because..well im not bush..btw g2g ttyl</p>
<p>I got it!!!!!!!</p>
<p>So I got finally what the point of WW2 is!!! All this war (110 million of deaths) was only to created israel!! jews sarificied themselves for their nation. Hitler was the jew too!! This was the very very huge game of jews, who killed so many people.</p>
<p>And i know that you support them.</p>
<p>Is you warning me? </p>
<p>You belong there with the rest of your "smart" idiots.</p>
<p>That's very offensive. I'll tell this all my friends, teachers and other Russians how they're idiotic. I don't doubt that anti-semitists have the reasons to hate orthodox Zionists like you, chauvinists and facists. The world fed you for many centures, but once you got your country you even don't want to hear about 'em.
I asked my history teacher specially. She said that Israel attacked Arabian countries first. They defended. You're the only nation now who think that you must possess the world, so you are not different from Hitler really..</p>
<p>Why do you frighten me with this word "anti-semitist"? I want America to be majestic, but jews instigate Russia and USA to hate each other. I don't want it. and nothing common with anti-semitism. Unlike Europeans, you "do" rather than "say", so that you kill Palestinians. And I agree with sexidesi: you call them terrorists only because they don't wear uniform and don't have tanks.</p>
<p>"And don't talk about stuff you don't understand. Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics have been sites of anti-Semitism for the past half-century. Jews who move to Israel from these oppressive nations don't want to have anything to do with the places of their birth. They are Israeli. They have moved to a new country"</p>
<p>Palestinians did not opress the Jews.So why shuold they give up their land just because Jews used to live in Israel 2000 years back?Why wasnt a new homeland made for the Jews in Europe,where they suffered the most?I had a lot of sympathy for Israel,but once I actually went there and had an opportunity to see the situation first hand,I've lost all of it.</p>
<p>again you folks seem to be playing fast and loose with the facts. when palestine became israel, it also became JORDAN. there were two states created, israel for the jews, JORDAN for the muslims. now all these claims that the allies just neglected the muslims are completely baseless. jordan was created for both the palestinans and the other arabs, and now they are demanding a state. whether they deserve one is another issue, but to claim that the muslims were ignored after WW2 shows a complete ignorance of history. </p>
<p>as for stardragons RIDICULOUS assertions regarding jews, WW2, and all other geopolitical and historical issues, i will not begin to raise them to the level of a coherent argument with a response.</p>
<p>And how you dare, bigjake, to compare me with Hitler???</p>
<p>My both grandfathers died there, extricating your .... nation, my one grandmother died from hunger during this war. My own nation (it's not Russians) lost 3,6 million people.
What did they do? They extricated YOU!! they destroyed Osvencim in Poland!</p>
<p>And what do you say us, Soviet people, Britains, Americans and French?? Thank you?? NO, you say "you even don't want to hear about 'em? We created the country for you! And what? I lost 1/3 of my nation only to free you from death (while you lost only 6 million out of 50), so your words are REALLY offensive. You must appologize and take your words back! </p>
<p>that is extremely rude offense toward the people who participated there and the people whose families suffered from this.</p>
<p>stardragon, i hate to tell you, but Stalin vs. Hitler was basically Evil 1 vs. Evil 2. the soviet government massacred over 25 MILLION people. so stop playing as if the USSR was on the side of good and freedom. stalin wasnt- he was on his own side, the side of a maniacal dictator, and the only allied leader that demanded that the areas he overran the germans in (Eastern Europe) be subjugated to his dominating will. get off the high horse.</p>
<p>I am not concerned with Hitler and Stalin. I know that half of my father's and mother's families died in WW2, they fought against facism, FOR the freedom of jews and overpowering Hitler. </p>
<p>For this mad purpose we lost so many people, and bigjake even dare to call us with such words.. Unbelievable. Really I never had against jews, only for peace in Middle East. But now, after talking to the real representative of this nation, I began to doubt whether my ancestors were true that they rescued 'em.. Sorry</p>
<p>I want to add. Stalin was not on the side of freedom, but Soviet people were. We really thought that we did the new free world. Russia changed dramatically since that time, in that time the folk was very tolerant.</p>
<p>"Again you folks seem to be playing fast and loose with the facts. when palestine became israel, it also became JORDAN. there were two states created, israel for the jews, JORDAN for the muslims. now all these claims that the allies just neglected the muslims are completely baseless. jordan was created for both the palestinans and the other arabs, and now they are demanding a state. whether they deserve one is another issue, but to claim that the muslims were ignored after WW2 shows a complete ignorance of history."</p>
<p>I raise the same point again.Why should the Arabs living in Palestine be deprived of their fertile lands in the western region so that the collective concience of the West reagrding their injustices against Jews be cleared?Why should they suffer for Europe's mistakes?</p>
<p>And northrams,how come USA realised that Hitler was evil only after Pearl harbour?</p>