<p>HAHAHA are you serious? Peres is alive?? I never heard about any of this so i didn't comment on star's post. But if this is true, then, star, you are seriously misinformed.</p>
<p>Peres is the deputy PM of Israel. Google him. He's really old though and has a funny accent.</p>
<p>L.E.K. I can't tell you how glad i am to have you hear actually backing up what you say with facts. You seem very knowledgeable on the subject and i'm waiting for star or akash to respond to facts.</p>
<p>Haha...thats ridiculous...star, where the hell did you get that this guy was dead. Not only did "Sharon's zionists" not kill him, but he serves in Sharon's administration.</p>
<p>Honestly, I stumbled on to this thread to talk about the military but jesus!! some of this stuff is really anti-semetic. I don't mind talking about this and i do constantly but some of this was untrue and kind of funny. I once was talking to a kid from Iran who said that Israel was a criminal state since they had nuked ramallah. He was completly serious! I felt bad later after i had to excuse myself cause im also died of laughter.</p>
<p>HAHAH nuked ramallah...thats classic...</p>
<p>For anyone who wants to actually learn stuff there are tons of really good unbiased books out there. They have lots of facts and quotes from all sides. It's worth the read for pro-Israeli and pro-palestinian and even for the normal people like me who just want peace.</p>
<p>"Are blame and fault being asserted more important than peace and prosperity being enjoyed"</p>
<p>That's a quote from the "evil zionist murderer" Ariel Sharon decades ago.</p>
<p>Hey L.E.K., can you give me the names of some of these books - especially any new ones that have come out.</p>
<p>First I'd read about the really big anti-semites like Noam Chomsky, his book is Chronicles of Dissent, and the late Professor Edward Said who published tons of miterial on "Israel's Occupation and policy of genocide"</p>
<p>If you want just the facts broken down by a few on-point questions followed by thier sources in a very user friendly manner, read Alan Dershowitz's The Case for Israel. He's a law professer at Harvard University but most people dismiss what he has to say because he's Jewish even though he's not Israeli. It's a very good book.</p>
<p>LEK, i have one thing to say to you...</p>
<p>THANK YOU!!! Finally another voice (other than bigjake) that is actually paying attention to the realitites of history.</p>
<p>Lets steer this back onto the original topic, because this stuff is just getting worse and worse.</p>
<p>Here is one of the biggest arguements I have against the draft- The army needs more solders, but it is a matter of maybe a hundred thousand skilled career troops rather than millions of conscripts. As our population is so large, any draft would only take a few people out of all the possible candidates. This does not work, for obvious reasons. Either you have a universal draft where everyone joins, which is unnecessary for the American military's needs, or you dont have one at all, which is where I stand.</p>
<p>I just want people to really know whats going on and then if they still want to they can decide that Jews control the media, run the US, were responsible for the tsunami (as reported by the Daily Star in Syria), have horns on thier head and sacrafice muslim kids for their blood to make matzah on Passover.</p>
<p>But it's always nice to hear that most people don't buy into this stuff.</p>
<p>I agree</p>
<p>What I was originally going to say was that one of the things that makes america so great is the freedom. I think it's very important the US has the strongest military but I'm not sure a draft is the best idea.</p>
<p>i think we can all agree that we seriously need to increase the size of the active duty military by some means, though a draft would probably be the last resort. there is just too much strain on the reserves and national guard right now.</p>
<p>I have no time now.. I'll post big meassage later..</p>
<p>I find nothing extraordinary that two jews defend their country. Everybody defends one's own fatherland, but not everybody is right.</p>
<p>LEK are you sure that Peres signed that agreement? Maybe I forgot his name.. want to say that you have practically no one word of truth. Palestinians are not Arabs, they became Muslims and turned to Arabs, after their invasion in 7th cent.</p>
<p>1) people can't "turn to arabs," much like one cannot "become" irish, though they can become an irish citizen.
2) nowhere did LEK say he was jewish, and i am not, but i still find your assertions ridiculous and baseless. but of course, its easier to attack the messenger than the message. since you cant (correctly) dispute anything LEK, bigjake, or myself have said, you resort to claiming that two of the three of us are "defending our fatherland," rather than just giving historical accounts of actual events.</p>
<p>Now I think Rabin was killed?</p>
<p>Northrams, "ridiculuos, ridiculous, ridiculous.." You only know this one word.</p>
<p>1) people can't "turn to arabs," much like one cannot "become" irish, though they can become an irish citizen.</p>
<p>Plain childish. If you mix with Arab for several hundred years, you will understand what it is to become Arab. </p>
<p>you resort to claiming that two of the three of us are "defending our fatherland," rather than just giving historical accounts of actual events.</p>
<p>I have NO TIME now. Maybe you speak only Jewish??? So you again turn this discussion to stupid chatting. I think bigjake already said that he will be constructive, so I want to hear it from you.. You're really ignorant if you continue to post personal-flaming messages.</p>
<p>Btw, stardragon, the language is Hebrew. Jewish is the religion and culture. I have no idea about anything that is going on in this thread, except I would like to say that L.E.K, while the majority of your points seem to be reasonable, I think it is extremely naive of you to think that Noam Chomsky is an anti-semite. I am Jewish, and have found none of his literature to be offensive in anyway. </p>
<p>I also do not support actions by Israel or Palestine and think that the entire crisis there is ridiculous. The Israelis were given a state and they protected themselves in a few wars. That does not, however, mean that they can control another piece of land that was not theirs originally given to them from the 1947 agreement. I also think that the Palestinians have taken the wrong approach as to how to deal with the situation. Through suicide bombings, Palestians have not solved any problems and only inflamed Israelis so that more war continues. Both sides need to put aside religious beliefs and history and sit down at a bargaining table and deal with the issue at hand.</p>
<p>Also, as to whether or not military service should be mandated by law, I do not think this is a worthwhile policy at all. If you agree with the military actions of your country, you can fight for them. If you have an ethical dilemma with war or a certain conflict, you should not be forced to take part in it. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>So Jaug, in addressing your last point, a person may live in this country, enjoy all the freedoms and opportunities it has to offer, and then not have to defend it if that is necessary? Throughout history, one of the most noble ideals was to fight for your country. It is sad when people are forced to fight for a country that oppresses them. But the United States does not oppress its citizens and, if it is threatened, it is a citizen's duty to defend the nation so as to ensure that future generations enjoy the same freedoms that he or she did. </p>
<p>What else do you want? In this country, it already takes A LOT to cause a draft. There is no mandatory military service. This country was based on the principle that everyone has free expression, but you can't ignore law. If someone has an "ethical dilemma" with hiring black people, that person does not have the right to refrain from following the law though he may express his views as much as he likes.</p>
<p>Jake, I am not talking about a private corporation that does not have to conform to US law, so the black reference doesn't make much sense. </p>
<p>I currently feel that I am oppressed by the US Government as my views are not only villified, but thrown away as un-American and non-Patriotic. I feel that privatizing social security is oppression to those over the age of 67. I feel that illegal voter fraud towards minorities is oppression. I feel that gays get oppressed by the government because they do not have the same rights as heterosexuals. I feel that kids get oppressed by not being able to go to decent public schools and have to have unqualified teachers teaching them. I feel oppressed when millions of Americans go without health insurance because the government is too stingy.</p>
<p>On those grounds, I do not support the United States and would not fight for them. I enjoy the right to free speech just as much as anyone else, but because of one right, I do not find it a necessity to fight on behalf of that nation. I would also argue that impending danger is a subjective manner such that only if given concrete evidence of attack plans could it be fully justified.</p>