<p>We have found summer programs invaluable for connecting with the top-level teachers. At a festival before her junior year, my daughter had a couple of private lessons with the principal bassist of the Philadelphia Orchestra. That led to a couple of more private lessons at his home in the weeks after the festival. That led to a frank discussion of potential teachers and a reference for regular lessons with one of his most gifted students. That led to daughter going to Tanglewood the following summer, being accepted at NEC, Peabody and Oberlin (where she will be going in September) and just missing but being invited to try again next year at Curtis. While at Tanglewood, she took lessons with several more top-level teachers and met a lot of the other players who later provided competition at college auditions. She makes her Carnegie Hall debut in two days, performing the Mahler First Symphony in her final concert with her youth orchestra (and getting to play the big double bass solo at the start of the third movement).</p>
<p>We did not use a coach for her college auditions - her regular teacher prepared her very well and either knew all the teachers she was going to play for, or had a close personal friend who knew them. The information she got from these sources was critical to her success.</p>
<p>Concerning sample lessons, I can reinforce what has already been said and perhaps add a point or two:
- Make arrangements early, directly with the teacher. Then make travel arrangements.
- Keep the admissions office informed so they know you are showing interest. Making a special trip for a sample lesson and a tour of the facilities can earn you major brownie points.
- It makes a better impression if the student handles the contacts, but if the student is not getting it done be prepared to step in and do it yourself.
- Offer to pay for the lesson, but realize that many teachers will not take your money.
- The student should be prepared to play or sing a variety of pieces that demonstrate their ability. They should have someting that is reasonably comfortable as well as a work in progress that is not quite mastered. They should avoid anything obviously beyond their current level.
- Don't be surprised if some teachers simply rub you the wrong way. The student should be attentive and polite at all times, but not afraid to stand up for their own musical beliefs. This is the time where you want to get any irreconcilable differences out in the open. It is also the style of some teachers to try to make you think on your own by making a statement that they want you to challenge.
- If you have been playing for several years and have worked with several teachers, learn to trust your instincts. You will probably know in the first 15 minutes of the sample lesson if you have a really good or a really bad match with a teacher.
- If you are still unsure, don't be too shy to request another lesson a few months later with one or more teachers. This is a major life decision that involves years of your life and lots of money. When it comes time to make the final decision, you will be glad that you completed the necessary research.</p>
<p>Thanks BassDad. I am going to print and file these posts for future reference. It seems that while I have been consulting CC, our son has been consulting music profs that he's met in our state and at his college, and has been emailing potential teachers. He has at least a couple lessons lined up for the end of July, so I guess we're on our way. </p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the great advice.
Chris</p>
<p>I thought for a minute that our kids were in the same group, BassDad.
We live down the street from you in NJ but our S plays with the NY Youth Symphony and is performing at Carnegie this Sunday.
It is a small world. :)</p>
<p>Just a quick post. My D made all the arrangements for her music lessons and also asked the different professors if she could attend one of their master classes. She made arrangements with the music admissions person to sit in on rehearsals for orchestra or band. Not everything worked into her schedules at the different schools but she did attend master classes and/or rehearsals at several schools. Didn't know if anyone else would find the master classes or rehearsals helpful, but she did. She has had lessons at 5 schools and nobody expected payment. Looking forward to a "quiet" summer since she will be gone for all state and her summer music program. Then all of the fun starts in the fall! I am hoping she will identify at least 1 and maybe 2 more schools/professors to take lessons with and appy to. Now I am waiting for just the right time to suggest getting an early start on her applications</p>
<p>Rehearsals are very good things to sample. She will likely spend more time in ensemble rehearsals than in any other single class, so it is a great idea to check them out. Make sure to find out how long they have been working on a particular piece, though. You can come away with a skewed impression of the group if they are seeing the piece for the first time, or if it is the last rehearsal before the performance.</p>
<p>Even six or seven schools can be a litle light for performing arts applicants. We started with ten and cut back to six after getting a positive early response from one. When the smoke cleared, daughter got to choose from among three.</p>
<p>One thing that we did about this time of year was to identify the people who would be writing letters of recommendation and get them all of the materials they needed before summer vacation. They were all very appreciative because most people ask them in the few weeks before the deadline. It is never too early to start thinking about those essays, either.</p>
<p>After acceptance, my son wanted to visit his top two choices again. His top choice returned his calls and emails...the other school didn't (made the choice easier). DS went to the school early in the morning...sat in on a couple of classes, an orchestra rehearsal, a chamber coaching, a private lesson (he knew the student), had lunch with the music adcom, and went to a brass jury. He felt very good about his choice!!</p>
<p>Having heard from a variety of sources that a sample lesson was a very good idea, DS (a graduating senior) contacted two teachers at two different campuses in early September hoping to meet with them before the semester rush got underway. He has often contacted potential teachers and played for them and always been graciously invited to meet with them, so we were both floored when he was partially stonewalled by both profs: one (far away) invited him to sit in on masterclasses and lessons but within a time frame DS couldn't manage due to his orch jobs. The other (close by) finally gave in and will offer a trial lesson for $100. I'm gathering from this site that some faculty simply won't meet with students in the year they are auditioning which is potentially reassuring as I thought these responses were slammed doors, esp. as both teachers were cool and slightly dismissive (although one approved his choice of repertoire and told him he would look out for the pre-screening cd). It made DS reconsider his first choices for studio teachers (although he had seen both of these in masterclasses and was very enthusiastic about them; he just hadn't played for either of them).
Perhaps where pre-screening is involved, it isn't done to request lessons until one has advanced?</p>
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<p>The other (close by) finally gave in and will offer a trial lesson for $100.>></p>
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<p>My son offered to pay for trial lessons with ALL of the faculty for both grad and undergrad auditions. At some places, there was no charge at all. At others, the costs ranged from $50 to $100 for the lessons and that was 6 years ago and 2 years ago.</p>
<p>I wonder if asking for sample lessons is becoming much more popular and the teachers are cutting back on the requests. Just a few years ago, I talked to lots of people who never knew you could even do that and now it seems everyone is aware of it and trying to schedule them.</p>
<p>StingKeyMom and others in the same position!</p>
<p>1) Don't take it personally if a prof can't/won't see your student. Some are more willing than others and even those willing can be truly very busy. A refusal doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of interest in your S or D. (However, after being accepted at a school, I would take a refusal for a trial lesson VERY seriously!!!!)</p>
<p>2) $100 is not out of line for violin teachers fees AT ALL. Expect $200 for some teachers.</p>
<p>3) Sitting in on lessons can be VERY valuable - you'll see the teacher closer to what studio operations truly are. (Later, try and talk privately with the student whose lesson you observed - can be very illuminating if student feels free to talk!) Masterclasses can be valuable, but there are a number of teachers out there who "put on a good show" and don't always come through the same way in the studio.</p>
<p>4) I don't think the pre-screen has anything to do with lesson or not. Students frequently have lessons in their junior year long before prescreen thoughts.</p>
<p>5) If your S or D studies with a "name" or a teacher who knows the college prof you are contacting, definitely use the connection!!! Busy faculty are more likely to try to squeeze a lesson in for their colleagues' students. Sometimes there is even discussion of the student between colleagues before the lesson is held - pluses and minuses there!</p>
<p>6) Sometimes students receive no response at all to lesson requests - leaving student wondering if the request was received, but not wanting to "hound" the teacher by asking again. This seems rude to me - why not a simple, I'm sorry but I don't give trial lessons, or I can't schedule one in your timeframe - but it does happen enough that it simply can't be personally targetted to any individual kid!</p>
<p>7) All you can do is ask politely - as you did. If they can't/won't follow through, have a great audition - and insist on a lesson before signing up for the studio!</p>
<p>We've always offered to pay up front and $100 is completely consistent with what top teachers at local conservatories receive for private studio lessons and with what I have paid in this area; I was certainly prepared to go higher if necessary ($150 - $200). </p>
<p>Fiddlestix, I'm not sure I understood you here:
"However, after being accepted at a school, I would take a refusal for a trial lesson VERY seriously!!" Do you mean that after being accepted and the teacher still refused, give up? I am worried about the point in the process where DS has to list the teachers he wants to study with. </p>
<p>Your suggestion about current teachers' connections is a very good one. In the past, DS has always made the contact himself, making sure to give the list of his teachers and coaches, and some behind the scenes recommending would take place. </p>
<p>Sitting in on masterclasses and lessons is definitely helpful in the decision process. (In the case of the faraway prof, DS already did this in the context of a music festival last summer and wishes he had taken a sample lesson then; the festival organizer told him it would be possible! This is a case of "if you will not when you may....").</p>
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[quote]
Fiddlestix, I'm not sure I understood you here:
"However, after being accepted at a school, I would take a refusal for a trial lesson VERY seriously!!" Do you mean that after being accepted and the teacher still refused, give up? I am worried about the point in the process where DS has to list the teachers he wants to study with.
<p>There are a number of ways to try and skin this cat: attending festivals, summer programs where exposure to proposed faculty is possible, looking for local, regional performances to try an arrange a lesson around, checking with the actual music department to check institutional policy if a particular instructor is being "evasive". Trying to establish initial contact is often the biggest stumbling block.</p>
<p>Start as early as reasonably possible, be persistent, and try an get a definate "yes", "no" or a policy statement.</p>
<p>"However, after being accepted at a school, I would take a refusal for a trial lesson VERY seriously!!"</p>
<p>What I meant was, if your student is accepted at several schools and is trying to decide between multiple options, it is reasonable to expect that teachers will make themselves available for private meetings, phone calls, e-mails, lessons, whatever else will help the student to decide on his final school choice. If the student hasn't had personal, one-on-one contact with a teacher before signing on to the studio and requests it, the teacher should try to accommodate a polite, respectful request. They know that students often have multiple good options - if they really want the student, they should put forth some effort to demonstrate this. </p>
<p>It's always possible that any given teacher will be out of the country or unavailable in person during the month or so that students usually have before turning in final decisions. E-mail & phone contact should make that clear - and the student should feel free to discuss the approach the teacher envisions for the student, repertoire, technique, whatever else is important in helping the student to pick a studio. If the teacher won't help the student out at all through contact, I'd wonder if they were really interested... </p>
<p>You'd have to weigh any stone-walling situation with the reputation of the teacher (some simply won't do trial lessons), your previous knowledge and resultant expectations of the teacher, your student's competitiveness for various studios, etc. Many students do just fine with teachers they have never met one-on-one before the first lesson in college. I'd definitely factor inaccessability into any final decision however - if teacher isn't interested in helping me choose them - are they really interested in teaching me? I believe that's something to consider.</p>
<p>Thx, Fiddlestix and Violadad, for the link, where the issue I am concerned about came right up.</p>
<p>"If you aren't truly competitive for the TOP studio at the school, don't list this teacher. Yes, everyone may truly want Fill-in-the-Blank-Top-Teacher, but if you can't get that teacher, you may loose your opportunity for others. I have seen this happen to students more than once - they misjudged their competitiveness for the most popular teachers and due to the way admissions worked, they were out of the school entirely. Other teachers thought they weren't interested in them and didn't accept them. (This can be corrected by transferring later to the school in the "less popular" teachers studio -I've seen kids do this - but what a pain!)"</p>
<p>"Students are rejected totally from school when 1st choice isn't available. They have contaced other teachers later for feedback who said they would have taken them, but are now full."</p>
<p>I should add that I have heard of many an instance where a student went for a sample lesson, was told by the teacher that they would be happy to have them in their studio, and then the student was rejected.</p>
<p>Yes, you definitely have to equate "would be happy to have them" to "is not disqualified for admission based on my minimum standards" rather than to "will be admitted" or even "is likely to be admitted." You simply do not know what the level of competition is going to be later on at the auditions.</p>
<p>Similarly, do not take poker faces (after lessons or auditions), or lack of response to emails, as an indication that a student will not be accepted.</p>
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[quote]
I should add that I have heard of many an instance where a student went for a sample lesson, was told by the teacher that they would be happy to have them in their studio, and then the student was rejected.
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<p>According to the great twentieth century philosopher, Yogi Berra, "It ain't over till it's over."</p>
<p>There are some applied faculty that have the authority, leeway, and ability to virtually guarantee an admit to a student they highly desire, but these are few and far between.</p>
<p>"Happy to have" is a far cry form "Congrats, you have been accepted".
While this type of statement is often expressed as a compliment to a potential student, it is by no means an offer.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, some will hear what they want to hear.</p>