Art Schools and LACs

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hello,</p>

<p>So we have been looking into schools for our junior son, fresh from the rollercoaster ride of finding a school for our daughter (frosh this year). His interests are studio art and math but his interests and talents are wid. For example he doesn't particularly like Chem...but achieved the highest average in Chem in his entire school. Another example: self-studied a 5 in Euro History. So far he has a 100 average (W), will have done 10 APs by graduation. First PSATs (will take again) was 710 CR and 690 M which he didn't have time to finish, will probably do better next month now that he knows how to improve speed strategies. He was chosen to attend an extremely cmpetitive free math camp at Williams over the summer.</p>

<p>Can you tell I'm a proud mom :)</p>

<p>S himself says he doesn't want to go to art school necessarily because 1) he also loves math, and 2) he may want to pursue a law degree. He has also expressed interest in an MFA; a masters in curatorial studies; and a PhD in math, art history or some related field.</p>

<p>Here is the point of this post.</p>

<p>Since grad school is in his future (according to him, the more the better!), all this time I have been focusing on getting him into the "best" school, preferably an LAC although there are also a couple of small universities on our list. Our EFC is 0 and the top schools offer the most need-based aid. Questbridge schools are pretty much the basis of the list, because even if he isn't matched, we figure they are good bets for need-based aid.</p>

<p>After talking to his art teacher (he takes classes at a local art school), I am realizing that I have been taking a different strategy from the one which the teacher suggests. To be clear, he (the teacher) does not "push" for kids to only attend an art school. However the portfolio development aspect is new to me...as is the idea that WITHIN studio art there are many, many subjects (graphic design, illustration, etc). So seeing a college on a list of schools with "strong" studio art doesn't tell you if it is the KIND of art your kid wants to study. He likes oil painting, loves Dutch masters, Renassaince (sp?), European painting and Greco-Roman sculpture. But he also was at one time fascinated by classical architecture. </p>

<p>To put it in a nutshell, I have been looking at top LAC/small universtiy schools with reps for strong Studio Art...when we should be looking at strong ART LACs/universities which will allow him to do more than art?</p>

<p>Does this make sense? Advice from parents? Students in the same boat?</p>

<p>OLD LIST
High reaches: Yale, Columbia, Brown
Low reaches: Tufts, Pomona, Amherst,* Swat,** Williams
Match: Vassar, Wesleyan, Haverford**
Boston College has a Presidential scholarship; the only non QB school on our old list.</p>

<p><em>cross-reg within 5 colleges= more art option
*</em>cross-reg with Bryn Mar, UPenn and each other = more art options </p>

<p>Thanks for listening to this rambling post. Please send any suggestions re. schools, approach, reality check for parents, etc. </p>

<p>Ironically my opinion is the opposite of many people's: I think art school grads will find jobs and make money IF it is their passion. My in-law was not academically motivated, loved art. Parents sent him to a private u, not art school because they worried he wouldn't find a job later. He now does computer digital-whatever BUT he probably would have gotten a better job graduating from an art school, in the same field.</p>

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<p>Don’t art schools give the worst aid? If you have a 0 EFC, and art schools don’t meet need, would you pay the difference?</p>

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<p>I might turn this question around. If grad school (and possibly law) is in his future look at keeping undergrad costs down. Go to the Financial Aid forum and look at the stickies for schools that offer good merit aid.</p>

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<p>What art schools would you/your son be interested in?</p>

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<p>A little confused…does he want to study art history or studio art as an undergrad? (two different pursuits)</p>

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<p>Hi and thanks to both of you for your responses. You both gave us great advice for D (or maybe I came across your advice to other posters). Either way, you and other CCers helped us form a strategy for her search.</p>

<p>As for S…we won’t apply to art schools. Maybe I was not clear. But we do hope to find really,really strong art programs at LACs and small universities. Another scenario: Tufts and Brown do a dual enrollment with art schools, UMFA and RISD, respectively.</p>

<p>The only school I have found so far with both merit aid and a rep for art is Boston College. Admittedly I was only looking within a 4-hour radius so there may be others. But I honestly think need-based aid will be better for us. Williams net price calc was just over $1,000 (no loans). Except for Wesleyan, all net price calcs were without loans and came out under $5K.</p>

<p>I guess the point I am going around and around is, how challenging/resourced/connected are the art dept’s at each of these wonderful schools? Because that may determine his ultimate choice.</p>

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<p>Sorry, crossed posts, I was responding to first two posters, but thanks to subsequent posters as well!</p>

<p>Major focus studio art, either double major or minor in math. However what I am learning is that for S it is not really enough to major in studio art…he is talking about specializing, which is what they do at art schools.</p>

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<p>Geez, sorry AGAIN, it’s SMFA (School for the Museum of Fine Arts) not UMFA.</p>

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<p>I know it seems counter intuitive but the schools that are strong in studio art are not necessarily strong in art history. And vice versa. And though it’s helpful to have a good eye in art history, the study of art history requires with a completely different skill set. (language, paleography, etc)
If art history is his interest, I would add Princeton to the mix.</p>

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<p>Yes this is my question about Williams. It has a grad program in art history but how strong is studio? It’s hard for me as a non-artist to gauge.</p>

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<p>Does he have a portfolio that he is interested in submitting for admission to a studio art program? For a double major with art history? Is that what he is looking for?</p>

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<p>He is a junior so he is putting together a portfolio. My understanding from his art teacher is that nothing done before junior year should go into it. He has done figure drawing since 8th grade, and has taken art consistently since then, so he does have a lot of stuff. He scored a 5 in AP Studio Art (first ever in his HS) as a sophomore.</p>

<p>No he does not want to double major with Art Hist, but with Math.</p>

<p>Thanks for following this thread.</p>

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<p>Sorry—the desire to get a masters in curatorial studies or art history threw me off. That requires a completely different strategy for undergrad.</p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with his old list (other than the fact that it is very top heavy and he should add some public universities and maybe some lower matches to it).</p>

<p>Small to medium college:</p>

<p>Bard College, in Annandale-on-Hudson, also reportedly has strengths in art. It’s also a small LAC and well-respected, so could be a place to also major in math and/or launch a law career or get a PhD from.</p>

<p>Purchase College of the SUNY system is well-known as an artsy place - they have a School of the Arts that has dance, music, theater and visual art, but also a traditional college of liberal arts & sciences and they encourage students to double-major. It’s affordable even for OOS students (although not much aid if you need it) and one of the new MacArthur Fellows, a dancer/choreographer, went there.</p>

<p>CUNY-Hunter also has a good undergraduate art program; it has majors in both studio art and art history; but of course it also has math and other majors. This is also an affordable program (OOS tuition is $10,000 a year) and there is Macaulay Honors, which your son would be eligible for and would provide a scholarship.</p>

<p>Occidental College has a cooperative program with the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, and students can take art classes there. They also have two cooperative programs with Columbia: admission to law school at Columbia Law after the junior year at Oxy, with appropriate scores; and a 4/2 combined program to earn a science/math degree at Oxy and then a master’s in engineering at Columbia. <a href=“http://www.oxy.edu/academics/programs-majors/exchange-cooperative-programs[/url]”>http://www.oxy.edu/academics/programs-majors/exchange-cooperative-programs&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Bowdoin, in Maine
Bennington College, in VT - lots of art concentrations, but also math
Sarah Lawrence (heavily female, in case that matters), Bronxville, NY
Skidmore, Saratoga Springs, NY
Connecticut College, CT
Lewis & Clark, Portland, OR</p>

<p>Universities/techie places</p>

<p>He might be interested in Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art, which is a well-respected institution that has science/engineering majors and art majors: [Welcome</a> | Cooper Union](<a href=“http://cooper.edu/]Welcome”>http://cooper.edu/)</p>

<p>Rochester Institute of Technology is another one of those art + math type places, that has technical degrees as well as a well-reputed cadre of art programs.</p>

<p>WUSTL has a great art history program for undergrads; it has its own art museum and is linked up with several in the St. Louis area. It also has a great art program, and of course is a good place to major in math too, and go to law school etc.</p>

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<p>Juillet, that is just the kind of info I have been hoping for. Thank you so much!</p>

<p>We already saw a couple of these, read about others, but many of them are new to us. And I believe Occidental is even a Questbridge school (will check).</p>

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<p>Oops it’s not Occidental, it’s Oberlin.</p>

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<p>After a summer at Williams I guess your son knows how he would like the rural environment, which is very different from the environment of many of the others on his list. </p>

<p>At Williams he could do a COMBINED major in art studio and art history (history/practice) and at the same time DOUBLE major in something entirely different, like math. Because the distribution and major requirements are fairly loose, this is commonly accomplished. Experimentation across academic disciplines is encouraged.</p>

<p>Williams’ art studio department is very good: excellent facilities, many accomplished working artists on the faculty, focus on process. There is a close hands-on collaboration with the powerhouse art history department and the three world class museums on or near campus offering lots of opportunities to interact with artists and curators.</p>

<p>The Steamboat Foundation summer internship at the Gardner Museum is open to both art historians and fine artists. This year’s recipient is a double major in art history and chemistry, last year’s art history and biology. (Williams’ art majors are also well represented at architecture graduate schools, which sounds like something your son may be interested in.)</p>

<p>Some other LACs that I would recommend for art/art history are Hamilton, Kenyon, Conn College, Skidmore. (Plus Wesleyan, Haverford, Vassar already on his list). These vary in academic strength. I’m less enthusiastic about art at Pomona, Amherst or Swarthmore, though there certainly would be many other attractions for your son.</p>

<p>Yale and Brown, yes. In addition to the joint program with RISD, Brown also has a good art department on its own, though it leans toward theory I wouldn’t put the Tufts/MFA program in the same category as Brown/RISD. Tufts is not especially arts focused and the SMFA School less . . . I don’t know what to call it . . . maybe less intense than other art schools. For Columbia: certainly many positives, including good art history, but there are better places for studio art.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry about choosing a media specialty just now. The next few years should be open to experimentation. I would mention, though, that Art departments at LACs tend to be more focused on traditional media like drawing, painting, sculpture, print making and photography, versus digital, computer graphics and new media.</p>

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<p>There was a thread in the Parent’s forum a month or two ago seeking a college for an artist with top academics. Maybe you can find that. I recall Penn was mentioned, for another reach. Carnagie-Mellon comes to mind as likely having math and art, but I don’t know too much about those depts.</p>

<p>There are 2 ways to go with Brown. Although there is only limited admission, the dual enrollment with RISD will let him gain an AB at Brown and a MFA at RISD. That is a 5 year program. You have to apply and be accepted to both. Or if he just went to Brown, he can take advantage of the Brown art dept and also take specialized coursework at RISD. Number of classes allowed are limited. Brown has one of the top Applied Math depts in the country.</p>

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<p>Thanks very much momrath and brownparent. Your posts are both insightful and informed, and I will go back to them as search goes on. </p>

<p>Williams was very quiet for him, true. Then again it was summer and apart from 18 math students, campus was populated by pre-teen lacrosse girls. I am partial to Williams because it is so safe…and so generous with financial aid.</p>

<p>It was good to hear your reactions to Amherst, Pomona and Swat. Also SMFA, which I wouldn’t have known. I think I mentioned that S’s art teacher finds SMFA heavily tilted to abstract art…not S’s interest, by any means. The impression of Columbia, though, surprised me – isn’t its grad Art is among the best in the country? Yale was S’s favorite school of the 15 we have visited. We don’t know much about their Art Dept but the faculty directory on their website is mind-boggling. Plus it kind of takes your breath away just to walk around the campus.</p>

<p>Yes, Brown and RISD look like a terrific match. We made appts to see them in Nov – can hardly wait. RISD sounds like it will allow him experimentation with different media (point well taken, that is exactly my concern, not forcing him to specialize too soon). If he didn’t get into both he could always apply to just Brown, and still be happy cross-registering. Brown’s fin aid is okay for us (according to net price calc). However my fear with Brown and Yale is low acceptance rates. </p>

<p>We visited Skidmore and Bard – S did not like either! He found Bard too informal: tour guide had only transferred in that year; no info session; and unfortunately, we got into the studio space – which doesn’t usually happen on tours…he didn’t like the artwork on the walls! Our Vassar visit the next day went much better. By the way S had a piece shown in an art gallery there through his art school.</p>

<p>As for Hamilton and CT, I have also heard of them for Studio Art but we will have to look into their departments. Neither of them are Questbridge schools but I think he would get in given his stats (Easier admission than into Brown!) The only thing about them is that their campuses sound isolated and their students sound like partyers. I know this will be everywhere but for him, the less, the better. If there are other options, we would check them out first.</p>

<p>Also BrownParent, thanks very very much for the mention of Brown’s applied math! I am focusing so much on art, I was forgetting the math part.</p>

<p>Thanks again to you both. Now I’ll look for that thread…
I can’t remember that thread, will look for it!</p>

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<p>Found it!
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1533052-help-ailing-friend-lacs-etc-good-studio-art-programs.html?highlight=brown+risd[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1533052-help-ailing-friend-lacs-etc-good-studio-art-programs.html?highlight=brown+risd&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;