<p>I found this article very interesting, it put things in perspective for me. Written by a high school senior.</p>
<p>Ivy</a> League: 'Why I Care About Getting A Good Education -- NOT Going To A Big-Name School'</p>
<p>Yes, a kid with his head screwed on correctly.</p>
<p>And as a Virginia resident, eligible for some of the finest public universities in the country.</p>
<p>I can’t argue with the comments above or with the basic premise of the writer. But I think that her reasoning displays one of the largest misconceptions about selective colleges:</p>
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<p>Going to an Ivy or any highly selective college isn’t all about what happens in the classroom. In fact, it’s mostly about what happens out of the classroom. Class is 12-16 hours a week; the rest of the week is about being motivated and inspired by especially talented peers. Having a diploma from an Ivy may or may not confer a tangible benefit, but the real perk of membership in a selective student body is the influence of four years of determination to not be left behind by friends who know how to make things happen.</p>
<p>“Or take the book Harvard Schmarvard. Written by Jay Matthews, it dispels the notion that, “the higher-profile school, the better.” Matthews, an actual Harvard grad, references a study by Stacy Dale, who found no difference in earnings between those students who had gone to Ivy League schools and those who had been accepted at those schools but chosen to go elsewhere.”</p>
<p>I might be in the minority here, but as someone who has preached to quest for that elusive fit with determination, I do not find much profound or well-reasoned in this document. Not really surprising when considering a few of the quoted sources. Mathews and Kiplinger hardly come to mind when looking for an intelligent appraisal of our higher education. Jay Mathews’ Harvard Schmarvard is as every bit as moronic as his obsession with collecting IB/AP trophies. That Oxy/Harvard pipeline has surely produced more than its share of twisted minds who love the sound of their voice! </p>
<p>Fwiw, I find the following line “The college a student attends is rarely a direct indicator of the student’s intelligence, ability to work hard, or likelihood to succeed later in life.” rather telling of the misguided influence this yound mind has received. Of course, one mitigating factor might be that the shores of the Potomac are really a microcosm of the mythical Lake Wobegon. </p>
<p>To this young person, I’d like to say that, while many students would not find a great fit at a Ivy League school, it would take quite an effort to miss the students who are there because of their intelligence, ability to work hard, or likelihood to succeed later in life. Most of those students did have other options, and chances are that they decided to attend the schools for more than its mere prestige. </p>
<p>Fwiw, I would bet a Venti Latte that this writer would jump at the chance of attending an Ivy League without hesitation … were he given the opportunity. </p>
<p>A wise man once noted:</p>
<p>The fox who longed for grapes, beholds with pain
The tempting clusters were too high to gain;
Grieved in his heart he forced a careless smile,
And cried ,‘They’re sharp and hardly worth my while.</p>
<p>[The</a> Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia”>The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand why Harvard can’t be as much of a journey as any other college in the US and the premise that one can’t get a good education there.</p>
<p>Can someone explain it to me why going to a prestigious school and getting a good education are mutually exclusive. By the way some people make it sound, the kids at Harvard are only being taught by TAs 100% of the time. There are some schools that might provide more support or have smaller class sizes, but I find it hard to believe that any student admitted into Harvard couldn’t find a meaningful education if they put some effort into it.</p>
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<p>Someone must’ve forgotten which college Bill Gate decided to go to.</p>
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Some of us didn’t go to college with the goal of high earnings. Bill Gates may have dropped out of Harvard, but there were a lot of guys in my class who are Microsoft millionaires who didn’t sign up with him until after they got their degrees. As for TA’s I had some - some were great, better than the professors for those courses. In fact, I can’t remember a rotten TA though I remember at least two rotten profs. I also had at least half my courses taught directly by the professor.</p>
<p>“Can someone explain it to me why going to a prestigious school and getting a good education are mutually exclusive.”</p>
<p>They’re not, and we all know it. They don’t offer just “good” educations, but excellent educations. Whether they offer the best educations in my judgment is highly doubtful.</p>
<p>Many of the current T.A.'s are non-native speakers of English, though. They struggle with the language, which can make instruction in the sciences especially worthless. Princeton, Harvard and Stanford are particularly guilty here, but I know there are others. Many of the students attending these institutions are shocked by the “you’re-here-to-teach-yourself” culture. Of course, the kids ARE generally bright enough to teach themselves. The question is, how much more profoundly and meaningfully would they develop over these years with careful mentoring and dedicated teaching?</p>
<p>I can’t speak beyond what I know, but my d., a head preceptor in the humanities at Princeton, does much, much more than I remember TAs doing when I was a graduate student. She teaches new material (not just reviewing or discussing that which was the subject of the professors’ lectures). She makes all assignments, grades all papers and all exams, including the final, and “recommends” the final grade (the professor would have no idea if it was right or wrong). Has office hours, too. </p>
<p>My d is terrific. She knows her stuff. And she speaks without an accent. But there is no way students get the “best” possible education from her. She went to a good liberal arts college. The educations are not comparable. (And in her case, no Princeton students get near the research opportunities she had at her LAC either.)</p>
<p>I always feel like I’m in some kind of time warp when I read about someone idolizing the Ivy League schools. I expect Gordon Gekko, greed-is-good, and floppy bow ties to accompany the sentiment. It’s just so dated, provincial and hick, and completely out of touch with today’s world.</p>
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<p>This whole concept of “what people think” is what the problem is. Really, most people are too busy with their own lives to worry that Joe down the street went to Harvard and look, he’s not an AG or a CEO. Harvard grads put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else; they don’t lead magical, charmed lives, they are just people.</p>
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<p>Really? Are you talking of experience?</p>
<p>I am truly afraid your chosen examples missed the mark by a mile. The TAs can indeed be a source of concern, but the most selective schools have the luxury of being more selective with their TAs. </p>
<p>Try again with better examples. A good start might be with the academic factories that rely on armies of TA to teach masses of undergraduates.</p>
<p>PS I am far from being a fan of the TA model. Actually, I find the activities described by Mini to be totally out of place – and why so many go though the greatest length to deny that TA do grade papers and actually do the teaching. There are, however, vast differences in the selection and use of TAs among types of schools. PhD students teaching in their chosen fields are hardly comparable to Master’s students or even undergraduates teaching their peers. Something that is an absolute disgrace.</p>
<p>There are clearly advantages. While elite financial services and consulting firms beckoned with open arms on campuses like Harvard, Stanford and Wharton for any average student, I had to hustle and fly myself to industry conferences and author a dozen papers in some of the world’s most prestigious scientific journals with professors at these Ivy League institutions in order to position myself on equal terms.</p>
<p>At the end of the day it didn’t matter, but at some point, it would be nice to no longer have to be the perpetual “underdog.” I ended up jumping right into private equity after college, ahead of the Ivy League bankers. But I had to work a lot harder, and my peer group on the same intellectual level is much smaller (for obvious reasons), than my friends who went to Ivy League colleges. My business network of individuals my own age is a lot smaller.</p>
<p>Parents place too much emphasis on classes. Intellectual enrichment came from research, conferences and internships. If you don’t like your classes, you supplement them with reading journal articles or books. It doesn’t really make that much of a difference, except you have fewer peers to talk to (see above), which can be lonely sometimes.</p>
<p>Pedigree doesn’t matter for college, but it sure would have made life easier, which is why even knowing that Ivy League doesn’t matter, some of us are gung-ho on going onto a prestigious graduate school (for our MBAs, MDs, PhD’s and so forth) to eliminate that doubt about ability that exists in many places in the corporate and academic world.</p>
<p>Oh good lord. If I hear one more thing about investment banking and management consulting on CC, I am going to throw up. And I’m a freaking consultant myself. Where people get the impression that these are the only jobs worth having, or the only jobs on the planet that pay well, I don’t know, but I’m so tired of the provincial “but look! Wall Street, Ivy, blah blah blah …” Who CARES? Who died and made those professions God?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I like your passion.</p>
<p>XIGGI <3 looool</p>
<p>"I’m not sure I understand why [Paste Prestigious College Name HERE] can’t be as much of a journey as any other college in the US and the premise that one can’t get a good education there. "</p>
<p>My thoughts exactly. It is not as if top high school students are forced to choose between a prestigious name and a fruitful journey. You can do okay at some of the better known schools too. (Or put another way, the Colleges that Change Lives are not the only colleges that change lives.)</p>