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You sure about that? My guess is it’s not as much students as it is their parents. ;)</p>
<p>“My guess is it’s not as much students as it is their parents.”</p>
<p>if “it” worked that way there would likely be very few posts on this parents forum</p>
<p>I heard the same stuff in the early seventies.</p>
<p>However, engineers and computer programmers are also being laid off, especially the latter. I have dear friends who have been out of work for years after highly successful careers programming.</p>
<p>Therefore, I think passion is a good place to start when crafting a career.</p>
<p>As for parents posting their own experiences, I think they’re illustrative of points being made. And I do have a kid in college trying to wade through all of this.</p>
<p>*“Get a college degree and you’ll always have a good job.” *</p>
<p>Is a lie that has been exposed for many years now. </p>
<p>Unless you are someone who is really, really special (like so many CC children are) you’ll want to look at higher education as BOTH an intellectual and professional pursuit. </p>
<p>And DON"T let the fact that you don’t know what you want to be prevent you from being SOMETHING in the interim. College minors exist for that very reason.</p>
<p>Going back 40 or 50 years, most kids in college (well, private ones anyway) came from affluent, well-educated backgrounds, had family and other connections, and were pretty sure to get a job after graduation (top management for the males, but, actually, upper class housewifery for most females), no matter what their major. Among this traditional elite, most of whom also went to private high schools or boarding schools, learning for learning’s sake was valued- but so was being aristocratically relaxed about things ("gentlemen’s C’s).</p>
<p>The post WW II economy also played a role, and, of course, right now we are still in the throes of a recession, if not officially. Whether you have no degree, a BA, BS, MA. or PhD, it is hard to get a job right now for many. Hard to relax over Plato for anyone.</p>
<p>As more people entered colleges, with the emphasis on equal opportunity, diversity and financial aid, I think the culture of higher education has changed and is changing and will change for quite awhile. Some of this is due to cultural values: the middle class is going to be more focused on jobs than were the old “trust fund” families, naturally; the cost of education and need for loans is another factor; more competition for jobs, since it is no longer a small number of people who have BA’s, makes things more anxious; kids are doing more internships and other job-training during college, and more colleges are offering these things for credit; and talk of vocation seems to happen earlier and earlier for kids even in elementary school, where the job market is oversimplified into clear-cut categories that do not reflect the reality. I also think that arts, literature and other humanities/cultural areas are less appreciated because many students have parents who are not well educated in these areas themselves. So the basic definition of being an educated person has changed from knowledge of history, art and poetry, to one who is well prepared for a job. </p>
<p>It might even be true that many of the students who do major in literature or the arts, for instance, come from backgrounds of money. It would be an interesting study.</p>
<p>I really don’t have any value judgment to make on all of this. In my late 50’s, I am still struggling with the issue myself, as I think about going back to school, and my 3 kids are resolving things very differently. I had originally thought, a long time ago, that the increased access to college would mean more people would discover the riches of English, history, philosophy and art. However, I think instead it has meant that more people are discovering the practicality of studies more geared to vocations in the marketplace. It will all just work itself out. There are some losses, and some gains…</p>
<p>I know that at Harvard, there has been a lot of concern that the campus vibe has changed, and the administration is trying to increase opportunities in the arts (new majors in studio art, theater, film) and bring some diversity of interests to campus. Many students are very intense in their pursuit of a resume, and are geared to business, law or med school after graduation. While this may be helpful to the individuals, it can make a campus a whole lot more boring, and some schools are worried about their ability to attract gifted individuals in the humanities and arts.</p>
<p>Finally, of course a BA is becoming the new high school diploma: everyone is trying to get one, which reduces its value in the marketplace, then causing degree inflation and more people pursuing master’s and above. When does it end? The competitiveness on campus comes from a glut of students, all competing for limited jobs. Let’s hope the economy recovers, and more kids can study the classics or archaeology or something.</p>
<p>So, folks, due to recent disability, my husband can no longer work, and I need to go back to work. I am finding that instead of finishing my degree in English, I might better use my limited cash to take some classes in Excel, Access and Desktop Publishing at our CC. Still, something in me yearns for the old-fashioned luxury of reading, discussing and writing about books, and I have always wanted to study modern art or colonial history. I have my own books, and can already write well enough, but I sure would like to take classes, even if I cannot really afford them! </p>
<p>If I were younger, I still think the ultimate payback, not onlyfor the spirit but also the pocketbook, comes from following interests, however impractical they may seem at the time. Life just isn’t all that predictable, and by trying to control things too early, many lose out on opportunities that would present themselves naturally. But then again, it may take some background money to be relaxed enough to meander that way, and let things happen.</p>
<p>Finally, many students are not in college because they are interested, anyway: they are there because they want a BA for a job. For those kids, including one of my own, I wish there were other paths…</p>
<p>^^^Interesting, insightful and somewhat sad.</p>
<p>Without the arts and humanities civilization is robbed of some of its moral compass. A play like Oedipus, for example, trains minds to ponder moral questions of free will and responsibility. This may seem arcane until the State of Texas must decide if it’s okay to execute those without the mental capacity to understand moral issues or consequences.</p>
<p>(To be clear, I am opposed to the death penalty in all its incarnations, but that’s just me.)</p>
<p>We seem to believe the arts and humanities are frivolous, but Santayana’s quote (I think it’s his) that those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it seems particularly relevant here as we watch the US demonstrate the dictum in our unfortunate foreign adventure.</p>
<p>For me, building an atom bomb is the easy part; deciding if or when to use it the hard part.</p>
<p>The arts and humanities educate the sensibility to more sophisticated answers to these kind of questions, unless we’re satisfied with basic self interest and fundamentalist chapter and verse doctrine as the guides for our choices.</p>
<p>Without folks to study the arts and humanities there are no jobs for those who wish to spend their lives pursuing these questions, and I think society certainly is impoverished.</p>
<p>Should we tell our young people to only study what yields an automatic paycheck? What if they don’t excel in those areas? Won’t others always be hired above them anyway? How can we ensure they will perform well enough to earn that paycheck?</p>
<p>Do we really want to eliminate the study of other languages in an increasingly global economy?</p>
<p>It seems to me that if a segment of the society is willing to risk its own economic well-being to pursue those areas of study that do not present themselves as immediately remunerateable they should be encouraged. If a struggling actor, or PhD, is willing to support him/herself by waiting tables or driving a cab it should not call down the anger or condescension of others.</p>
<p>On the other hand, thank goodness for engineers, actuaries, scientists…Of course, their pursuits equally ennoble the human race.</p>
<p>I can’t for the life of me see what we’re arguing about.</p>
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I expect there’ll always be people consumed with re-inventing the wheel.;)</p>
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I do, too. And she actually seems to appreciate the perspectives from her siblings, parents and grandparents who have “been there, done that, and lived to tell the tale.”</p>