<p>$200,000 household income is top 5% in the US, not “middle income”. Actual median income in the US is about a quarter of that (or about a third of that considering only households headed by someone age 45-54, the typical age of parents with high school seniors or college frosh). Probably most posters here would consider the actual “middle income” in the US to be “poor” (so does Harvard, whose parental contribution falls to $0 at between $65,000 and $70,000, although a $4,600 student contribution remains).</p>
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<p>Must be pretty tough living on $200,000 per year. I wonder how the other 95% lives.</p>
<p>Perhaps it will be easier to save for college if, on $200,000 per year, you had the spending habits of an actual middle income household making $50,000 or $70,000 per year.</p>
<p>I’ve heard that at Columbia the social scene favors rich kids who have money because you know, you’re in NYC.</p>
<p>At Princeton, 3/4 of people are in eating clubs and while there’s definitely exclusivity in these groups a lot of people recognize that there’s more equality here than at, say, Columbia. Thurs/Sat nights are often spent at eating clubs instead of ‘out somewhere’ unless there’s a big event that’s in NYC.</p>
<p>Perhaps there is “more equality” at Princeton because there are fewer students from lower income backgrounds – 12% on Pell grants versus 30% at Columbia.</p>
<p>"texaspg, not every kid has a career path mapped out at 18 or 19. And some people actually like to see their kids. And flossy is correct regarding costs. "</p>
<p>Does that really mean that kids attending Harvard need to go back to bagging groceries after their freshman year? Not worrying about a career does not mean they have no idea what their area of interest is at the end of freshman year.</p>
<p>Most students get 3 months off. Not all of it is spent working.</p>
<p>Costs are what the costs are. Some students spend more and some make more. My kid could have stayed home making the same 5k working for someone else but it would not have met her long term needs. People who want to make more major in fields where there is more money even for interns.</p>
<p>There have been countless discussions on CC ( and in the real world ;)) regarding this issue. The current FA system is set up to facilitate exactly such a student body.</p>
<p>Yes, the solution is pile on more free stuff. Hmmm. What exactly does that solve? And why wouldn’t the middle-class kid who sees his parents struggling to pay for the basics get annoyed as he trudges off to bag groceries in the summer while the poor kids board the plane to Europe?</p>
<p>Perhaps it is not surprising that many of the schools with students from poorer backgrounds have a greater percentage of students in overtly pre-professional majors (e.g. business, nursing). Studying one’s passion without regard for post-graduation job prospects may be seen as a luxury for those who have family safety nets to fall back on if post-graduation employment is not found immediately.</p>
<p>So true! For kids climbing up the ladder often the entire family is invested in their future success. For the wealthy, it’s sometimes not much more than an intellectual parking place. I said sometimes, not always.</p>
<p>Some years back, in the New York Times, there was an article about a graduating Yale senior whose project was a collage showing all her receipts from her time in college as well as how much money she had to live on. There were quotes from her wealthier classmates as they looked at the project and also quotes from the university.</p>
<p>I tried unsuccessfully to google it. Maybe someone knows the student’s name?</p>
<p>But ucb, there aren’t preprofessional majors like business and nursing at the wealthiest schools. For a student without significant connections, it really is a question of GPA. </p>
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<p>Most of what I see on the Smith list is of the “teach a woman to fish” variety. Knowing how to interview, how to manage money, how to apply for a credit card–I fail to see how these are things that are only for rich kids. FA for study abroad–that’s pretty common among wealthier schools for any student receiving FA, not just the poorest. </p>
<p>The one thing I see on that list that might leave middle-class kids out in the cold is flying students home when there’s a family illness. However, we don’t know exactly how Smith implemented that–what the criteria for qualifying were, what the income cutoff was, if there were smaller subsidies for better-off students, and so forth.</p>
<p>Bay - I don’t think folks are “jealous” of rich ones, and there is no reason why rich ones should live like poor ones. (Except that, at my alma mater, the millionaires’ kids are already receiving a $120k subsidy.) The point is to make it possible for poor kids to take full advantage of what the college has to offer, and to make it possible for wealthier kids to take full advantage of the diversity the college has mandated for their benefit.</p>
<p>We were “middle class” - between $45k-$67k in income, and yes, our kid boarded the plane for Europe, for which we are very grateful. She currently lives in Venice, paying her own way as a fellow of an Italian foundation, made possible by Smith having made it possible to board the plane (and insisting that English not be spoken at all during the year.)</p>
<p>I should add that the Deans at Smith had wide discretion as to how (and for whom) emergency funds could be used, and without “documentation”. I know, for example, that there was one student who needed emergency dental surgery which was not covered by the student health plan, and there was no way her family could afford to pay for it. The College covered it, and it is now included in the student health plan. There is a book fund, but also a fund for students who can’t afford it to present academic papers at conferences to which students have to travel.</p>
<p>I am sure that other colleges have similar programs, too. I think the difference is that Smith has been thinking about this systematically for more than 30 years, since Jill Ker Conway was president.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove, S2 has felt the same way about his experience. Both my kids were at programs in public schools with Title 1, real poverty and tremendous ethnic/racial diversity. The perception of a “diverse” campus definitely depends on where you are coming from.</p>
<p>Have to say that 30 years ago, it was a much different experience for kids from poor and working class families. DH and I were both zero EFC students who didn’t get any support from our families, and the economic and social realities of being a poor student on campus were far different than what happens at many schools today. (This was one of the reasons I loved Swat when we visited.)</p>
<p>Yes, and this is what I have witnessed that the “richest colleges” actually do. Which is why I admitted to not being able to feel sorry for poor kids at those schools. (Not that anyone asked me to, just noting it).</p>
<p>I cannot even begin to tell you how thankful (and relieved) we were when, first, my wife went through a bout with an extremely aggressive cancer and couldn’t work, and, then, shortly thereafter, I had a major heart attack (and died!) The Deans were amazing! They offered to fly our D. home (we didn’t take them up on it - I think we too shocked and amazed by the offer to really take it in), and then to have them increase our financial aid within 30 days, and without any additional documentation other than a letter. </p>
<p>Others may have similar experiences at other colleges - we only have the experience of this one. But I now donate to them every year instead of to my alma maters.</p>
<p>Perhaps this will sound like victim blaming, but it think it needs to be said…</p>
<p>That poor student needs to learn to say “I can’t afford that.”</p>
<p>It’s not like wealthy students at elite colleges aren’t aware that many of their classmates are on FA, but they shouldn’t be expected to be mind readers. How are they to know that their friend or roommate is on a tight budget unless he or she tells them that? It seems unfair to accuse the wealthier student of insensitivity otherwise.</p>
<p>I had a roommate whose family had just barely scraped up the money to send her to our expensive private college. For the first few weeks neither I nor my other roommates were aware of this. Many of us had jobs, out of independence, not true need, so we didn’t know that when she turned down our invitations to go to dinner or a bar it was because she didn’t have the money. When she finally did clue us in it was easy to adjust. Splitting a pizza and a pitcher of beer instead of going out for Chinese, quietly splitting the gas money three ways instead of four. It didn’t seem like a big deal.</p>
<p>Please, ucbalumnus. I’ve heard this rationale before. Almost impossible to get into Harvard to begin with, so I consider that example a moot point & not representative of my argument in the least. And $200K is a nice income indeed.</p>
<p>There are plenty of $50K-$60K schools that give token scholarships of $10K-20K (usually a mix of need & merit-based) to $75K-$125K per year families, income of which is middle-class in my book. And as I have stated before, that income class gets very, very few need-based aid scholarships, ones that really mean something, to those schools. </p>
<p>So the students from middle-income families are financially frozen out of the elites (or at least the high priced colleges, can’t label them ALL elite just based on cost), and have to attend the state schools or lower tier privates. Nothing wrong in the world with that, both my kids thrived there, but as discussed upthread it leaves quite an income disparity at the elites.</p>
<p>Sue - you are right. Though it is a little more complicated. Pizza where I went was an every night event. It was easier to just slink away. And, the reality was, higher income students didn’t know how to ask. It’s not that they meant any harm - on the contrary, I bet some, perhaps lots, of them would have been very generous. There just wasn’t a language to talk about it that was safe for either group. </p>
<p>When I worked in the bookstore, I used to gather up the coursebooks - all new of course - for wealthy students who had left either a credit card # or (more usually) a blank check with the bookstore. I had to scrounge for used or damaged books - which I didn’t mind - I loved a good deal! - but it hurt when there were books I simply couldn’t afford. And again, I expect there might have been some very generous people who would have wanted to help (I know that today I would), but there wasn’t a language or forum for this to happen.</p>
<p>Wealthy students SHOULDN’T be expected to be mind readers. That’s where the college comes in. There’s a lot more education that could be going on, and isn’t.</p>